Royal Fleet Auxiliary buttons

[Guzzman]

I have examples of RFA officers cap badges with both King's and Queen's Crowns in my collection as well as much other RFA insignia, including buttons. All the RFA buttons I have bear the Queen's Crown. I have never seen an RFA button with a King's Crown. Do they even exist?

All the RFA buttons I have have a rope rim, a plain background and the Queen's Crown above a foul anchor and the letters RFA. If the Queen's Crown buttons were the first official RFA design, what was worn before then? Did they wear the basic Merchant Navy officers button?

I have always assumed that the buttons with the rope rim and a plain background were for officers. If that is the case, what buttons are worn by CPOs and POs in the RFA? Do they have their own version of the RN Senior Rates button in the same way as they have their own version of Senior Rates cap badges?

Sorry to have so many questions!

Pete

[btns]

I have only seen QC officers' design RFA buttons as described in your original post.

[Guzzman]

Firstly, many thanks for replying.

Yes - it's strange isn't it? You only ever see Queen's Crown buttons. I only thought about it the other day. The Royal Fleet Auxiliary has been in existence for over a century now so their officers must have had some sort of buttons on their uniform prior to adopting the present Queen's Crown pattern. And when exactly did they adopt those? Were they adopted at the beginning of the Queen's reign or were they introduced during some subsequent uniform reform? The more I think about it the more questions there are to be answered!

The problem is that there is so little information available re Royal Fleet Auxiliary uniforms. Hopefully someone on here knows the answer to at least some of my questions or knows where I might find some more information.

Pete

[GTB]

Can you discern the design on Buttons? To my eye they look like early Merchant Navy type but I stand corrected.

GTB

[btns]

I agree, foul anchor buttons.
Example attached.

[GTB]

I was wondering if this button applied

GTB

[Phil2M]

I agree that they are the fouled anchor that Btns illustrated.

[Guzzman]

Many thanks to everyone for their replies - and special thanks to GTB for that excellent photograph. So it seems that Foul Anchor buttons were worn prior to the introduction of the Queen's Crown RFA button.

That just leaves a few points still to clear up - when was the Queen's Crown button introduced? And what sort of buttons do RFA Senior Rates wear?

Pete

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Guzzman

Many thanks to everyone for their replies - and special thanks to GTB for that excellent photograph. So it seems that Foul Anchor buttons were worn prior to the introduction of the Queen's Crown RFA button.

That just leaves a few points still to clear up - when was the Queen's Crown button introduced? And what sort of buttons do RFA Senior Rates wear?

Pete

Hi, When I was an RFA Senior Rate (Petty Officer Medical Technician) the buttons on my No 1 uniform where the same as you described, fouled anchor, plain background in a roped rim with RFA on it.

If I can find one I'll post it on here.

Regards

Tony

[Guzzman]

Hi Tony

Do you mean that your buttons were the same pattern as RFA officers? You don't say anything about a crown in the design - was there one?

I hope you can find one and post an image as that will help to clear up another query! Many thanks!

Pete

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Guzzman

Hi Tony

Do you mean that your buttons were the same pattern as RFA officers? You don't say anything about a crown in the design - was there one?

I hope you can find one and post an image as that will help to clear up another query! Many thanks!

Pete

Hi there, Yes they had a queens crown and were the same pattern as the officers. I think this was because basically, before the Falklands conflict RFA ratings only really consisted of AB's and PO's who had no other "uniform" than No 8 action working dress (now 4's) only after the Falklands was a ratings uniform introduce along with some attempt to align rates to those in the Royal Navy and think a senior rate button was just not thought of (unless it was and I've simply never seen one (possible!) .

I will look in the next couple of days to see if I can find one.

Regards

Tony

[btns]

Please find a scan of the R.F.A. button attached.

[Guzzman]

Many thanks everyone (I REALLY miss the 'Thanks' button!)

So it seems that one button is used for all ranks and rates in the RFA in much the same way as the Royal Canadian Navy does these days. And it's very interesting to hear when the buttons were adopted for Senior Rates. All I need now is someone to confirm when the RFA buttons replaced the 'foul anchor' buttons for officers! I think that will be a much harder question to answer ...

Pete

[GTB]

Would I be amiss in thinking that only one universal design was produced for Officers and senior rates, and that the difference would be in manufacturing quality? To be more precise, the RFA button examples I have are Officers (spunback). If a crimped example is located then that would clinch the matter.

GTB

[btns]

Until now we have only been looking at R.F.A. buttons.
The "War Department Fleet" with its W.D. and R.A.S.C. buttons have officers' designs only as well.