WAS THE RAF EDUCATION CAP BADGE ALSO WORN BY THE RAAF

[badgecollector]

HI ALL
was this badge worn by the RAAF?
it is a RAF education officers cap badge made by Firmin, and i have never seen it worn by the RAAF however, i have been looking at some pics of 2 big aussie collections and both show an example.
any confirmation is appreciated
bc

[cga00]

I don't think that these were ever worn as hat badges. I think that this is a RAF education branch collar badge - and as such I would think also worn by the RAAF when in use.
Regards, Craig

[badgecollector]

hi craig
thanks for the reply.
it never occured to me that this could be a collar. i have just measured it and it is 30mm tall so size wise that would make sense and wearing the standard airforce cap badge would also fit with what your saying'
thanks
bc

[rockape560]

hi bc,

as an ex rockape i have to agree with the above that this is a collar badge.all ref officers wore the same hat/cap badge but with different collars for what they did.
hope this helps

philip

[badgecollector]

hi guys
did these badges come in different sizes?
my badge is 30mm however the pair of collars that just sold in bosleys last auction (26 jan) lot 219 look to be 25mm at best.
any thoughts?
bc

[SAS1]

These badges are a bit of a mystery...

The RAF used them as collar badges on the service dress tunic, 25mm (or so) with the eagles always facing the right. They were introduced in February 1940 under Air Ministry Order A116/40 and were to be worn with the brass VR collar badge. They were abolished in June 1948 under AMO 368/48, and that was the end of things as far as the RAF were concerned.

The RAAF also wore them, taken from the RAF and introduced shortly after them. Unlike the RAF, the Australians wore them in 'bronzed' metal or black painted metal and in two sizes, a larger one (nearer to 30mm) on the collar of the service dress tunic and a smaller one on the collar of the shirt. In 1948 in common with RAAF policy, the darkened finish gave way to gilt, before the RAAF abolished them altogether in 1949 (although not all went at that time).

I have seen larger brass versions, with English makers names on the revers and I know a dealer who has a larger brass pair at the moment that shows wear. I believe that the RAF Museum has (or had) in store a cap with one on, but I think this was supposition only and dont have any evidence it was ever worn on the cap, by either the RAF or RAAF. Margaret Nobbs, who issued 'notes' for collectors in the late 60s and 70s I think also assumed the larger was a cap badge.

In 30 years I have never been able to confirm what the larger brass ones were as I have no evidence of them ever being worn in the RAF. Its unlikely any were made larger in error by a manufacturer, so its possible the larger ones were RAAF stock, even if UK made.

[cga00]

Originally Posted by badgecollector

hi guys
did these badges come in different sizes?
my badge is 30mm however the pair of collars that just sold in bosleys last auction (26 jan) lot 219 look to be 25mm at best.
any thoughts?
bc

Just took a look at mine - a nice matched gilt pair, measuring 30mm across the wings and 24mm top to bottom.

[revdougal]

Originally Posted by rockape560

hi bc,

as an ex rockape i have to agree with the above that this is a collar badge.all ref officers wore the same hat/cap badge but with different collars for what they did.
hope this helps

philip

The sole Branch to hold out for its own badge was Chaplains, until 1 Jan 93 when it succumbed to uniformity, losing its cap badge, but gaining, it is said, a light blue clerical shirt as part of uniform. The badge has 3 fixtures, for cap badge, collar badge, and SSO/pullover/Officiating Chaplain: viz blades, lugs, and broach pin.

[SAS1]

JamYam

Interesting notes. Are these direct quotes from dress regulations or Air Ministry Orders?

I ask as I question the use of the larger badge on the service Dress and smaller on the mess dress. The badge was introduced on February 22nd 1940 under Air Ministry Order (AMO - what is AMWO, its not a term Ive seen before?) 116/40, and abolished under AMO 368/48 of June 14th 1948.There was no mess dress during the war, it having been abolished for the duration, only being reintroduced about 1947. Therefore, for most of the badges life there was no mess dress for it to be worn on.

I have a pair of EO collar badges given to me by a wartime EO, and these are the small type, which he wore on his Service dress, while all photos I have seen of RAF EOs show the smaller version worn on the service dress collar. Its possible that the ruling of large for SD and small for MD was made after the war, before the badge was abolished, but its otherwise something that goes against all the evidence.