Parachute regiment KC query

[Shiny]

Hi All,

I was just wondering if anyone has any thoughts on this badge or any of the seller's other items?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?m...2F323839309867

I only ask as he has a few I'm interested in but I am a bit suspect of some he has.

Thanks

Michael

[Luke H]

Original badge, but post war.

[Shiny]

Thanks Luke

[Jack8]

It is an original WW2 badge by Gaunt with the well known die flaws. The lugs have been removed and replaced with a named slider to fit the post war berets with slider pockets.

These badges are not common in this form and I have only ever seen three including this one.

Cheers, Jack.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Jack8

It is an original WW2 badge by Gaunt with the well known die flaws. The lugs have been removed and replaced with a named slider to fit the post war berets with slider pockets.

These badges are not common in this form and I have only ever seen three including this one.

Cheers, Jack.

Are you suggesting Gaunt didn’t manufacture Para badges post WW2?

I own a badge with no signs of loops and know of 3 others identical, 1 with this 1950s mark. Clearly they were made that way, so post war.

Why would an WW2 issued badge be returned to the factory +5 years later for modification when they can make another?

[Shiny]

Thanks everyone, I might have a little go at some of his badges then.

Michael

[Jack8]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Are you suggesting Gaunt didn’t manufacture Para badges post WW2?

I own a badge with no signs of loops and know of 3 others identical, 1 with this 1950s mark. Clearly they were made that way, so post war.

Why would an WW2 issued badge be returned to the factory +5 years later for modification when they can make another?

Hi Luke,

Of course Gaunt made Para badges post WW2, I have Queen's crown examples marked J.R. Gaunt London.

The King's crown badge with a Gaunt marked slider in question has the same die flaws associated with some WW2 lugged other ranks badges. Collectors have identified that these flaws are the same die flaws that are present on the silver hallmarked badges produced by Gaunt in WW2. It is therefore reasonable to assume that these other ranks badges were also produced by Gaunt and that the subject of this thread is also a WW2 Para badge by Gaunt.

In addition to the die flaws there is residue brazing solder where the lugs were fitted. When the slider pocket was introduced to berets post war there may have been a surplus of lugged KC Gaunt badges which were then converted to slider by Gaunt for use in these berets.

I have not seen any documentation to support this, but I believe it is a fair assumption to make unless a better explanation is put forward.

Cheers,
Jack.

[Luke H]

There seems to be a very common assumption, mostly spread by dealers that if a KC parachute regiment is genuine it automatically equals ‘WW2’. Not so. The KC badge was still made and issued well into the 1950s.

The badge in question appears to show one scar on the viewers left from a loop.

These slidered badges are fairly scarce and by the marks on the 2 marked ones I’ve seen 1950s. The other unmarked badges I’ve seen all have similar shaped sliders suggesting same period of manufacture. We can be certain they didn’t only order and issue half a dozen parachute regiment badges from Gaunt in the 1950s therefore the other badges must have had loops.

I don’t think it’s safe or logical to assume this a WW2 badge kept in stores for some 5-7 years and then converted. Far more likely and simply it’s a circa 1950s made badge that was converted during the manufacture process.

[Jack8]

The badge in question is identical to the WW2 produced Gaunt badges and has had its lugs removed. This is only the third one I have seen. I have one in my collection and it can be clearly seen where the lugs were. I have examined a second example owned by a former forum member and that also had clearly been relieved of its lugs and replaced with a Gaunt slider.

In my opinion this badge was produced with lugs which were then replaced with a slider for whatever reason but most likely for the slider pocket beret.

It is possible that this badge was produced post war but why remove the lugs and replace them with a slider.

Cheers,
Jack

[magpie]

Originally Posted by Jack8

The badge in question is identical to the WW2 produced Gaunt badges and has had its lugs removed. This is only the third one I have seen. I have one in my collection and it can be clearly seen where the lugs were. I have examined a second example owned by a former forum member and that also had clearly been relieved of its lugs and replaced with a Gaunt slider.

In my opinion this badge was produced with lugs which were then replaced with a slider for whatever reason but most likely for the slider pocket beret.

It is possible that this badge was produced post war but why remove the lugs and replace them with a slider.

Cheers,
Jack

I'd say it's more likely to have been that guant had an overrun of stock badges and the specs changed to them having sliders and so couldn't send them with a mix of lugged and slidered badges, wouldn't you just put the usual 2 holes in a pocketed beret as there must have been a lot of men keeping their original badges if they needed a new beret.

[Jack8]

Originally Posted by magpie

I'd say it's more likely to have been that guant had an overrun of stock badges and the specs changed to them having sliders and so couldn't send them with a mix of lugged and slidered badges, wouldn't you just put the usual 2 holes in a pocketed beret as there must have been a lot of men keeping their original badges if they needed a new beret.

Gaunt may have had a specific order for slidered badges and used up old stock.

[btns]

Originally Posted by Luke H

..

Why would an WW2 issued badge be returned to the factory +5 years later for modification when they can make another?

Have you considered an overrun on earlier orders?
When the specs changed the old stock was modified and sold.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by btns

Have you considered an overrun on earlier orders?
When the specs changed the old stock was modified and sold.

Yes absolutely, however of the ones I’ve seen the majority do not have scars. The statements I was responding to are these:

Originally Posted by Jack8

It is an original WW2 badge by Gaunt with the well known die flaws.

...It is therefore reasonable to assume that these other ranks badges were also produced by Gaunt and that the subject of this thread is also a WW2 Para badge by Gaunt

Do I think it’s a WW2 badge - no. Do I think they had an overrun of WW2 stock that lasted 5 years - no. Far more likely it’s a post war made badge which has then been converted.

It’s 100% accurate to say the badge which is the topic of this thread was made from the Gaunt die. It’s also accurate to say the Gaunt die was in use from WW2 onwards, but, it’s a stretch to say the badge in question in this thread “is a WW2 badge” or that all badges from this die are WW2.

[Jack8]

Originally Posted by Luke H

Yes absolutely, however of the ones I’ve seen the majority do not have scars. The statements I was responding to are these:



Do I think it’s a WW2 badge - no. Do I think they had an overrun of WW2 stock that lasted 5 years - no. Far more likely it’s a post war made badge which has then been converted.



It’s 100% accurate to say the badge which is the topic of this thread was made from the Gaunt die. It’s also accurate to say the Gaunt die was in use from WW2 onwards, but, it’s a stretch to say the badge in question in this thread “is a WW2 badge” or that all badges from this die are WW2.

May i ask roughly how many of these badges have you seen, I've only seen three with the 'scars' of removed lugs and a Gaunt slider in place?

I have never seen a KC Para badge with the Gaunt die flaws on a marked slider without evidence of removed lugs.

Compared to the Queens crown badges with the same marked slider these badges are scarce.

Maybe others on here will comment on how many they have seen.

It does appear that all officers hallmarked silver badges from this die stopped after 1945/46 (date letter v).

I find it difficult to believe Gaunt would deliberately produce these other ranks badges from 1946 onwards from their wartime die, add lugs and then remove them to add a slider.

Jack

[Luke H]

Overall I’ve probably seen a just over half a dozen examples but para badges are not something I actively look for.

I own two, both acquired within the last year and both have no traces of loops. Photo of my more recent buy is attached.

My other (which shows its age far more) has an unmarked clipped slider, again no scars - it’s in a tin somewhere. If you’re interested I can try dig it out?

Officers badges would be private purchase rather than contractual order so I don’t think too much inference can be drawn from them.

Re your last point, is there any evidence to suggest Gaunt ever stopped producing para badges at wars end? We still had paratroopers who would’ve needed badges and Gaunt had been and still were one of the army’s main suppliers of cap badges.