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#1
19-10-13, 07:50 PM
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Hallmarked Motto for comments
Hi this is a Motto I have had for some years that I thought it time to share.
Hall marked with early Victorian head pre 1890 followed by Lion Passant year date sadly unreadable or not their? any thought on manufacture dates etc thanks Stephen Collecting to Stone Staffordshire and surrounding Towns and Villages. In particular the whereabouts of my Great Uncles medals 14 Star Trio 1st Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment to 9605 Pte H Taylor known to be serving with A Coy 1915 also his brother location of his British War and Victory to 12125 Pte W.J Taylor serving with 5th Batt R.F. 1915. I have his 14/15 Star. 
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#2
19-10-13, 08:15 PM
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This could be the "silver duty" marked chad?
Page 139 L&D, fig 43.9 -17L, B
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro 
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#4
19-10-13, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
The Lineker & Dine book on Cavalry Arm Badges has this one displayed, as mentioned above, but they do not show the back image. Yours certainly looks ok from the front. Rob [Robthereiver] on this forum should be able to give this one a thumbs up or down. Just made yours a bit easier to look at... see below.
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Cofion gorau Gruffydd M-J www.paoyeomanry.org.uk "A Yeoman from the Stalwart Rural Cavalry" Lechyd da pob Cymro
Last edited by GriffMJ; 19-10-13 at 09:05 PM.
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#5
20-10-13, 09:21 AM
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[QUOTE=yorkstone;234562]Hi this is a Motto I have had for some years that I thought it time to share.
Hall marked with early Victorian head pre 1890 followed by Lion Passant year date sadly unreadable or not their? any thought on manufacture dates etc thanks Stephen Morning Stephen This 17th lancer NCO's Arm 'Motto' is very interesting and looks in very nice condition. I would like a little more information though please, in order to comment on it properly. I wonder if you could you give me the dimensions of the 'Motto', and some glare free images (best taken in natural daylight or a daylight lamp) would be helpful to see detail properly. In particular an image of the duty mark and the loop fittings taken obliquely from the side. According to Linaker & Dine these were unusual Arm Motto's, and were possibly made for the Regiment direct, as opposed to being purchased through the Army Clothing Dept. at 'inflated' prices. It is also likely that it had a backing plate which has been removed. A further interesting point is if it had been purchased by the ACD then it would have been fully hallmarked. I hope that sheds some light. Rob
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#6
20-10-13, 09:46 AM
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Hi Stephen,
A very nice looking piece, thanks for showing it but what is the ' rosette ' ?? showing in photo's three and four, that does look interesting ?? Dave.
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A man is only as tall as the sum of his deeds !
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#7
20-10-13, 11:31 AM
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Rob,
hope these images help a little I have put the Motto on a scale and taken images from different angles to try and get the marks In life, they are quite clear. interested to hear your views I have had this for around 30 years I have an other interesting 17th Lancers item I will post later. I do not have L&D book can you post ISBN number I have Peter Seaman's book on Cavalry Arm badges. Stephen Collecting to Stone Staffordshire and surrounding Towns and Villages. In particular the whereabouts of my Great Uncles medals 14 Star Trio 1st Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment to 9605 Pte H Taylor known to be serving with A Coy 1915 also his brother location of his British War and Victory to 12125 Pte W.J Taylor serving with 5th Batt R.F. 1915. I have his 14/15 Star. Last edited by yorkstone; 20-10-13 at 11:53 AM. Reason: informtion added
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#9
20-10-13, 01:23 PM
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Hi Stephen,
Very, very nice ! a nice board as well, I was actually holding one of those rosettes last Sunday, not mine of course !  Will you be at Whittington on the 6th ??? Dave.
__________________
A man is only as tall as the sum of his deeds !
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#11
20-10-13, 02:23 PM
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Hello Stephen
Thank you for the additional images and information. What I initially noticed was the quality of the rear of this 'Motto', and having now seen your latest images, they confirm the finish is poor and not what I would expect a British made Badge of this period. So I have made enquiries. Fortunately, a fellow collector has one of these 'Duty stamped' Arm 'Motto's', which is apparently, very well die-struck, and the reverse of the 'Motto' is as good and crisp in quality as it's face. So this confirmed my thoughts, that IMO your 'Motto' is either, an 'in theatre' made, c.1900, possibly India judging by the loop fixings (which is my preference), or an early 1960's/70's copy made by persons unknown. I would suggest you see if you can test the silver content, with a local Jeweller, this might tell you more. This is just my opinion of course, and despite Griff's kind words which I thank him for, I would never call myself an 'expert'. I am a collector with a view based on my experience and knowledge, but I'm not infallible .Regards Rob [QUOTE=yorkstone;234620]Rob, hope these images help a little I have put the Motto on a scale and taken images from different angles to try and get the marks In life, they are quite clear. interested to hear your views I have had this for around 30 years I have an other interesting 17th Lancers item I will post later. I do not have L&D book can you post ISBN number I have Peter Seaman's book on Cavalry Arm badges. Stephen Last edited by Robthereiver; 21-10-13 at 07:50 AM.
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#12
20-10-13, 02:58 PM
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Rob
Can you post an image of the other badge you mention for comparison. However if made by different source bound to be differences do you not think? Others mention it is as seen in the L&b book but their is no image of the back in the book. This needs to be handled to get a feel for it it screams quality. Yours in collecting Stephen Last edited by yorkstone; 20-10-13 at 03:11 PM. Reason: spelling
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#13
20-10-13, 04:08 PM
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Stephen
I can ask, but I do know there are limitations to this particular collectors photographic/IT skills, hence he is not on this forum. This is not so much a question of manufacturers variants this is a question of manufacturing methods and I suspect yours is die-cast as opposed to die-struck. I agree, I would prefer to have the badge in front of me, and be able to feel the 'metal' as it were, and I don't doubt for a moment that it sings quality but not IMO from a British manufacturing point of view. I'm sure there are other members on this forum who have in general terms, greater knowledge of British badge manufacturing, and I would be most interested in their view whether it concurs with mine or not. My apologies, as I overlooked your request for info on L&D's book, I currently have one new copy available c/w both sets of amendments. Please pm me if interested. I hope that is of help. Rob Last edited by Robthereiver; 21-10-13 at 06:59 AM.
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#14
20-10-13, 10:29 PM
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Gentlemen & Ladies
I have been through all 59 pages of Cavalry, Yeomanry, Tank/RAC Badges, and albums and Gallery pages and not found one single Motto of the type and Quality Victorian silver hallmarked as the one I have shown here. can any one give me an link where a similar badge is shown. Sincerely Stephen
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#15
20-10-13, 11:38 PM
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Stephen,
You must realise that by now, your motto has to be ' spurious ', you had better send it to me for disposal ?? do you want my address. Dave.
__________________
A man is only as tall as the sum of his deeds !
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