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  #16  
Old 20-07-20, 10:08 AM
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Chipper Chipper is offline
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Hi Vincent, the 2nd class was worn as a small piece of ribbon, without the metal cross, on the 2nd (?) button on the front of the tunic. May simply be a choice not to wear it, as the 1st class took precedence anyway.

Cheers, Tim



Quote:
Originally Posted by KOMalta View Post
I'm at a loss when it comes to German awards and rankings as you might have noticed.

So should he be wearing the button hole ribbon or the Iron Cross 2nd Class itself besides the Iron Cross 1st Class? If so, why would you think he's not wearing it?

My interest is personal and would like to gather as much information as i could!

Thank you all for the information so far. I would love to get to the bottom of this.

Regards,
Vincent
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  #17  
Old 21-07-20, 12:45 AM
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hagwalther hagwalther is offline
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Hi Guys,

The Second Class Iron Cross (EKII) was only worn on the day of award or later as parade mounted on formal civilian or military occasions such as weddings or formal parades.

On the day of award the cross and ribbon was worn from a button hole or uniform pocket depending on the style of dress. After the day of award the cross was removed and never worn again (unless parade mounted) with only the ribbon left in situ. Instead of wearing the ribbon a small medal bar could be worn over the left breast.

As stated, the award of the Iron Cross was a stepped award but there are occurances of the First Class (EK1) and Second Class being awarded and even, if I remember, a Knights Cross (RK) awarded for the same action. Such occurrences of multiple awards of the Iron Cross at the same time are however rare.

Attached is an example of a parade mounted Imperial EKII by Godet. The style of mounting can be found in different formats.

Regards,

Chris
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File Type: jpg WWI EKII Godet Obverse Small.jpg (66.1 KB, 10 views)
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  #18  
Old 21-07-20, 07:10 AM
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leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is online now
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Is that style of mounting referred to as Prussian style?

Was not the EKII ribbon worn on the left breast of the LW blouse as there is no visible button hole for it to be worn from?

I think the breast eagle may very well be being worn in the photo, just not showing up very well.

Last edited by leigh kitchen; 21-07-20 at 07:16 AM.
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  #19  
Old 21-07-20, 07:49 AM
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hagwalther hagwalther is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
Is that style of mounting referred to as Prussian style?

Was not the EKII ribbon worn on the left breast of the LW blouse as there is no visible button hole for it to be worn from?

I think the breast eagle may very well be being worn in the photo, just not showing up very well.
Mounting - I think so. The rectangular (trapedoid) shape was the Austria style and there is also a style that looks like a 'U'. WWII parade mounted EKII's also follow the format shown in my image.

LW not my thing but looking a Panzer crew wraps (jackets) they often have the ribbon attached to the left button hole where in civilian clothes a flower or similar would be placed and not in a button hole which is used to join the jacket together.

I did a quick look re: panzer uniforms and found this:

http://www.dansmith.info/hassel/topics.asp?ID=31

Note position of EKII ribbon.

Looking at the original photo. Has eagle been removed together with any other WWII insignia leaving just the 1914 EK1? Bottom left of image - what are those rings? RAF officer to guys right? Image post war or while a PoW?


Regards,

Chris
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  #20  
Old 21-07-20, 08:14 AM
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leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is online now
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I have a few WWI EKII's, but I can't remember what the mounting styles are called.

It had occurred to me that the image may be a PW or post war one with insignia denazified and an EKI worn as it's an "acceptable" Imperial one but thought the outline of the eagle seemed too pronounced to be the ghost of a removed one. I hadn't noticed the sleeve rings though.

The EKII ribbon worn on the buttonhole of the panzer wrap appears in many photos, but the LW blouse doesn't have such a buttonhole.

I havn't seen that site before - the "hassel" in the URL gave the initial clue and then when you see the reference to "Porta" - the work of a Sven Hassel fan then.
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  #21  
Old 21-07-20, 10:36 AM
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KOMalta KOMalta is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
It had occurred to me that the image may be a PW or post war one with insignia denazified and an EKI worn as it's an "acceptable" Imperial one but thought the outline of the eagle seemed too pronounced to be the ghost of a removed one. I hadn't noticed the sleeve rings though.
Thank you all for all the information provided. Must say your detective skills and eyesights are most remarkable.

The image was taken around 1943-44. It's certainly not post-war as the man in question was never seen after the war. Last records/letter was received from outside Berlin and after that all went quiet. If killed in action, taken POW by the Russians (and killed), or just disappeared no one knows.

Thank you all once again.
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  #22  
Old 22-07-20, 07:18 AM
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atillathenunns atillathenunns is offline
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Hi Vincent, I concur with Leigh that his rank is Unteroffizier.

your man appears to be wearing a flying blouse that has one row of hidden buttons down the center front, unfortunately he has his arms in the way to see if there are lower side pockets, which were introduced on the 2nd December 1940 (Order #1509).

However, the lack of a Luftwaffe eagle on the right breast, suggests the photo was taken pre 1940, as the wearing of one on the flying blouse worn by NCOs and ORs, was only introduced on the 14th October 1940 (Order #1290).
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