What badge is this and is it Original?

[phaethon]

Hi all,

Now, not my area of interest but got it with the job lot. What unit badge is this and is it looking Original?

If good one then I will list it for a sale here.

Thanks,

[phaethon]

The Buffs?

[JerryBB]

Monmouthshire regiment, sold by the museum shop as a pouch badge but sadly a fantasy badge as far as I am aware.

[phaethon]

Thanks Jerry

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by JBBOND

Monmouthshire regiment, sold by the museum shop as a pouch badge but sadly a fantasy badge as far as I am aware.

Why could it not be a bandsman’s pouch (music case) badge Jerry? Such badges did exist; they are poorly recorded, and were entirely unregulated, with even battalions of the same regiment adopting different patterns. The badge is different to other Monmouthshire Regiment insignia, in that the Dragon of Wales (as it is officially called in heraldry) is standing on a Torse rather than a Field. Interestingly it is of the same form as the dragon in the centre of the late Victorian glengarry badge of the Monmouth’s as a Volunteer Battalion of the South Wales Borderers. This seems significant to me. It seems also to have been a variant for the central device of the helmet plate star for the regular battalions.

[Toby Purcell]

Enclosed is an actual band pouch and badge for a Volunteer Battalion (so in white metal) of the South Wales Borderers. I suspect that the subject badge of this thread is either, a re-strike from the original die, or a brass example, as used by the regular battalions and TF battalions after 1908.

[leigh kitchen]

The badge in post no. 1 is from a different die to the one shown on the pouch (just in case that hadn't been noticed although I imagine that it was).

[Frank Kelley]

It appears very crude in direct comparison, but, I don't think it was made yesterday, although, I have certainly seen more handsome dragons.

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

The badge in post no. 1 is from a different die to the one shown on the pouch (just in case that hadn't been noticed although I imagine that it was).

[Sonofacqms]

This is a badge that I have seen at various militaria fairs, not may I say on the tried and trusted sellers stalls, so it could be a pouch badge, but they generally have screw posts, I don't think it's The Buffs although I may be completely wrong.

My advice is to treat it with caution.

Rob

[JerryBB]

Besides it not being the Buffs as it is completely wrong -looped tail etc-, if anyone cares to do a search on the Monmouthshire regiment a number of posts on these badges should turn up, I almost bought one when I first joined the forum so I know the posts are on here somewhere.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by JBBOND

Besides it not being the Buffs as it is completely wrong -looped tail etc-, if anyone cares to do a search on the Monmouthshire regiment a number of posts on these badges should turn up, I almost bought one when I first joined the forum so I know the posts are on here somewhere.

Yes I agree that it’s a differently (incorrectly) looped tail and such pouch badges traditionally (but not always) had screw posts, but my point is just that the badge shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand. The badges were unregulated and battalions did largely as they wished, especially those posted in stations in India, Egypt and associated outstations. There is no doubt that a different die has been used, just as there are makers variations with so many badges posted within this forum. Dies varied, just as with the dragon central device on the SWB helmet plate.

[Alan O]

This is a common fake and seen in all of the 'wrong' places for sale. If it is based on a genuine design then it is not one I recognise.

[Toby Purcell]

So just to be clear you don’t recognise the bandsman’s pouch and silver dragon on a Torse posted above, and the two badges look nothing at all like each other? I don’t disagree that the badge that started the thread might be a fake, nor that fakes are easy to reproduce in numbers. Just bear in mind that band pouch badges could be crudely made depending upon where and when they were sourced. I’ve posted a thread on such badges here: http://www.victorianwars.com/viewtop...lit=Band+pouch