ROYAL MARINES BADGE BACKING

[johnG]

Will somebody please tell me the reason for the red patch at one time worn behind the badge by Royal Marines when they wore a navy blue beret.

Do they still wear the blue beret and red patch behind badge? These days it seems to be entirely the green beret with dulled badge when it is not a peaked cap with a bright and shiny badge.

Does the red patch represent the Royal Marines at one time, back in its history, having worn a red jacket, perhaps in the days when it was The Admiral's Regiment.

Many thanks

johnG

[engr9266]

Originally Posted by johnG

Will somebody please tell me the reason for the red patch at one time worn behind the badge by Royal Marines when they wore a navy blue beret.

Do they still wear the blue beret and red patch behind badge? These days it seems to be entirely the green beret with dulled badge when it is not a peaked cap with a bright and shiny badge.

Does the red patch represent the Royal Marines at one time, back in its history, having worn a red jacket, perhaps in the days when it was The Admiral's Regiment.

Many thanks

johnG

This is worn by RM recruits before they have passed the RM course and become fully fledged marines. They are then presented the green beret in exchange for the blue one with red patch.
This beret is also worn by RM cadet units.

[johnG]

Thanks Jerry. Any idea when it went out of general use, i.e. when the navy blue beret ceased to be worn by all ranks of the Royal Marines, and to return to my original question, what does that red patch represent.

I have in mind it being worn by a member of the Royal Marines during WW2 as I put together a display of his medals and badges.

Cheers
johnG

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by johnG

Thanks Jerry. Any idea when it went out of general use, i.e. when the navy blue beret ceased to be worn by all ranks of the Royal Marines, and to return to my original question, what does that red patch represent.

I have in mind it being worn by a member of the Royal Marines during WW2 as I put together a display of his medals and badges.

Cheers
johnG

I have always been under the impression that from c1943 the navy blue beret with red "tombstone" badge backing was worn by all RM OR's who were not Commando trained (graduates of Achnacarry and all that). These will have included Landing Craft crews, HM Ships' detachments, the RM Armoured Support Group and large numbers serving in the two non-Commando RM formations - 116 (RM) Inf Bde and 117 (RM) Inf Bde - and I'm sure many others.

[johnG]

Thanks Mike, that fits in nicely with what I thought, with 1943 being the year the badge was moved to over the left eye instead of over the left ear, and I can only guess at the 'tombstone' patch representing the days when they were red coats, which must have been long time passing as 1914-18 photo's show the RMLI (Which my father joined in 1918, and served until 1944), wearing blues - i.e. before the RMLI and RMA were amalgamated.

Regards,
John

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by engr9266

This is worn by RM recruits before they have passed the RM course and become fully fledged marines. They are then presented the green beret in exchange for the blue one with red patch.
This beret is also worn by RM cadet units.

And the Royal Marines Band Service!

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by johnG

Thanks Mike, that fits in nicely with what I thought, with 1943 being the year the badge was moved to over the left eye instead of over the left ear, and I can only guess at the 'tombstone' patch representing the days when they were red coats, which must have been long time passing as 1914-18 photo's show the RMLI (Which my father joined in 1918, and served until 1944), wearing blues - i.e. before the RMLI and RMA were amalgamated.

Regards,
John

Best image I can find - member of the crew of an RMASG Centaur CS95 tank in Normandy:
RMASG.jpg

[johnG]

Deleted by self.

[stonehouse boy]

Taken from History of the Royal Marines 1919-1980, by James D Ladd.

A red patch behind the badge on khaki caps had been worn from late 1941 by all ranks after completing their initial disciplinary training, and the patch was incorporated into the design of the blue beret in late 1943.
I can't find a reference why a red patch was chosen.

John

[johnG]

Thanks for that John. I have searched pretty widely for an explanation of that patch, but have not found anything .

Until something better comes along I will stick with my pet theory that it represents the days of the Royal Marines being 'Redcoats' - back in the days of their formation when they were known as the 'Duke of York and Albany's Maritime Regiment of Foot', and 'The Admirals Regiment'

At one time I thought of it as a reference to the 'Royal Marines Light Infantry', but surely the RMLI wore a blue uniform, and the main colour of their civilian wear necktie I know for certain to have been green.

So that's it, until somebody shows me otherwise, the red patch is for their origins.

Thanks for the search though. Much appreciated.

JohnG.

[Sunray9]

RMLI - Red Tunics.

RMA - Blue tunics.

Ritchie.

[johnG]

Ritchie, I take that to mean the RMLI wore red tunics when they first adopted that name; do you have a date for that please, as I note from photographs taken during WW1 that blue tunics were worn by that time, and indeed I have a 1919 photograph of my father so dressed - that being before the amalgamation of RMLI and RMA.

Do you have a date for when the red tunic was discontinued by RMLI and the change to blue was made.

Many thanks,

johnG

[enfant perdus]

Taken from "Badge Backings & Special Embellishments of the British Army":

A domed scarlet patch was first worn by the Royal Marine Artillery and Royal Marine Light Infantry on the unpopular "Broderick" cap...It continued to be worn after the amalgamation of the RMA and RMLI in 1923 until the "'peaked" version of the "Broderick" cap was replaced. The patch was reintroduced during the Second World War (2 3/4" base X 21/4" high), first for ranks in the Royal Marine Brigade, then extended to the Royal Marine Division and eventually to all trained ranks. However...the 2nd Mobile Naval Base Defense Organization wore a blue patch! When the blue beret was introduced in the second half of 1943, a red patch was included when the beret was manufactured. The original red patch, adopted for wear on the field service cap, was cut from scarlet cloth still held in some of the clothing stores for use in making up the old RMLI tunics.

[Sunray9]

Sorry John, can't find an exact date other than 1923 when the amalgamation took place.

Ritchie.

[johnG]

Thanks Ritchie, my only problem with that is the RMLI wore blue tunics prior to 1923, and enfant perdus post has really muddied the water as I have a photo of an RMLI man in 1919, and there is no patch on his Broderick cap, and personnel (I can recall the names of five of them) I thought to be MNBDO2 during WW2 wore a red patch, not a blue one.........but perhaps that was before they were shipped out to MNBDO......it is all rather confusing, but thanks everybody for the input.
johnG