Cardiff Pals - opinions please?

[ShortestinBattalion]

First of all, apologies for bringing up this subject again and I have read some previous threads relating to the Cardiff Pals but I would like to ask members opinions on two badges.

Going through some recently inherited effects of my great-grandfathers I have come across lots of Cardiff Pals related bits and bobs. My great-grandfather Cyril John Evans was in the "Pals" and here are two badges which I believe were his.
The first one is white metal and isn't the normal Welsh Regiment cap badge so if someone could shed any light that would be great. In pictures I have seen in books this seems to be the cap badge worn by the "Pals", was it perhaps specific to 16th Battalion?
The second one is your regular Cardiff Pals badge, however having read previous threads I am worried that it may not be genuine/original issue. Unfortunately it has plenty of polish wear to the front but it seems to be a good press (not too deep and not a "jelly mould" lol).

If anyone can offer any help or information I would really appreciate it!

Best wishes as always
Kev

[JerryBB]

The first badge is a Collar badge for the Welsh regiment, introduced in 1909 off the top of my head. I can't comment on the Pals badge.

[41st]

Well for a start it's got nothing to do with the Cardiff Pals, they were the 11th Battalion, the badge shown was worn by the 16th Battalion.
The good news though is that it's a good one. Not sure what's happened to the lugs though, they look as though they've been turned through 90o.
I believe your Great Grandfather was 23149/47449 Pte. C J Evans who entered France with his battalion on the 4th December, 1915. As such he was not in the Cardiff Pals, they entered France on the 3rd, 4th & 5th September, 1915. His number block does not belong to the 11th Cardiff Pals either, although they do not always follow the block pattern.
Hope that helps.
This is a Cardiff Pals badge.
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=47678
This is what the 16th wore.
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ictureid=47677
Cofion gorau,
Kevin

[ShortestinBattalion]

Many thanks Kevin, so he was in the Cardiff city battalion rather than the pals. Funny how stories change over the years and the truth gets lost, unfortunately he died when my grandfather was still quite young. We in the generations that followed always just assumed he was in the Cardiff Pals. Really helpful info Kevin thank you.
BW
Kev

[LONGSHANKS]

Hi team

I wanted to add something to this thread to see what the Welsh experts think of this one. I saw it last minute on Ebay and bid a dollar over asking price, and took a chance.

I understood from reading at sometime in the past that a badly defined rear was a good sign. I might be wrong, but fingers crossed.

Regards

Simon.

[LONGSHANKS]

Over 50 views, no takers. No Welch collectors up tonight.

Simon.

[wardog]

I think it is a copy Simon- not a match for the good version of the 16th collar. Regards, Paul.

[LONGSHANKS]

OK Paul, thanks for the input. It was worth a shot for $25.

I can return it, unless there's any other opinions.

Cheers

Simon.

[TWGB]

Simon,

I'm with Paul on this one, I'm afraid.

The main 'tell' for me is the wings. On a genuine one, the front wing has one less vertical divider (I suspect there's an anatomical term, but I've no idea what it is!) and the rear wing is a very different profile, and swept much higher.

In general, the line detail on other parts (such as the fleur) is finer / better on the copies, too. The same is true of the seeding; it's just about there (maybe?) on the shield, but nowhere else, on the originals - whereas copies are peppered with it.

Best regards,

Tim

[LONGSHANKS]

Thanks again Tim. I took a chance at the last minute when I came a cross it. No issue I can send it back.

Cheers

Simon.