Not really a badge! Artillery related

[jesus_jones]

Hi,
Apologies if this is in the wrong place and/or wrong forum.
If it is, please could you direct me?

I am researching a motorcycle used in a 1944.
The first part is that I can identify it formed part of the Guards armoured division - as the badge, I knew pretty well, is still visible:



The rest, I'm not 100%. Wondering if you knew, or knew a forum that would know...



I'd put money on that being a H. It looks also like the 3rd quadrant is a red square on a dark blue background, which would suggest artillery 3rd battery?

H (on some websites) denotes a battery command post officer vehicle. But It could also mean troop?

The front of the bike shows the same H, but above it, there is also a Y and it looks like a badge shape, with a red top.



Any thoughts?

[Bill A]

Hello jesus jones, welcome to the Forum. Your account is active and open for posts.

[fairlie63]

Hello jesus jones,

You are correct in that it appears to be an H on an R Battery (third battery) marking.

H is traditionally the Command Post Vehicle of a field branch artillery regiment, in those days either an 8cwt or 15cwt truck, or sometimes a half-track in RHA SP regiments.

Early on the troop sergeant and the DR of an anti-tank troop had motorcycles - one of them might have used the troop letter H instead of MC1 or MC2. H Troop would be in the third bty of an anti-tank regiment when they went to NW Europe but they shouldn't have had motorcycles in a/tk regts by then.

Of course everything is subject to change and extemporisation, it was the British Army after all

Heavy and light AA regiments of the Australian Army used H for battery HQ vehicles but I can't find evidence for British Army use of the same in 1943 onwards.

Keith

[jesus_jones]

Thanks ever so much Keith. Great help. I was up late, googling the 'Y' on the front mud guard and saw "Battery survey officer' vehicle - is this anything you've come across? Maybe attached to H troop. Not sure if troops had their own survey team/person and if they'd use a motorcycle also for surveying.

I am a novice in this field, so learning the ground up.

Since I asked yesterday evening, a chap at my work place has been up most of the night to narrow down the markings - we are both wondering (as I reply now) if you have any thoughts, based on your obvious knowledge on the subject and on what you've typed already??

His notes:
Guards armoured had 5 artillery components
• 153rd (Leicestershire Yeomanry) Field Regiment, Royal Artillery 01/06/42-11/06/45
• 55th (Wessex) Field Regiment, Royal Artillery 08/06/42-11/06/45
• 21st Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery 01/06/42-29/05/45
• 75th Anti-Tank Regiment, Royal Artillery 01/06/42-11/06/45
• 94th Light Anti-Aircraft Regiment, Royal Artillery 01/06/42-11/06/45

153rd, didn't have H-troop, but the 55th (Wessex) did, so he claims.
The remaining RA regiments, were more attachments than actual historical units and thus, he believes, the bike would more likely have been with them.

The 'Y' still puzzles me, however. it's background is triangular shaped at the bottom and is dark. Yet the top, looks to have been red.

Really interesting though!

[54Bty]

Not sure about which Regiment but in a Field Regt it could be the Assistant Command Post Officer (Tac sign Y) of the 3rd Bty Command Post (Tac sign H), using a spare Motor Cycle on the establishment. The normal vehicle being a 15 cwt Truck which can soon be fully loaded with kit and equipment and no room for him.

Just a thought.

The letter Y on the symbol may show that the vehicle belongs in one of the two West Somerset Yeomanry Batteries and the other Battery has a different symbol. The Regiments other two Batteries being from Wiltshire.

Marc

[fairlie63]

Marc is right about the Y being for the ACPO, in fact in the 1938 organization the battery command post itself was Y1 and Y2, H did not come until later.

It might also be worth remembering that the blue square with red square denoting battery did not come into use until early 1941 and took quite a while after that to become general.

Prior to this lots of differing shapes and colours or combinations of same were in use of which no consolidated record survives. It may be that the Y was a previous marking for BCP or ACPO and that the shape behind it denoted the particular battery.

It may well be that the unit sign, i.e., 74, 76, 77 being the likely contenders, was on the fuel tank.

Keith

[Roy]

Hi JJ,

I can't help you with your enquiry but as a motorcyclist I would love to see some photos of the whole bike?

Cheerio,

Roy