Commando shoulder patch WW2?

[gasman]

Hi. Anyone any ideas from what period in WW2 this badge was used. Regards

[arrestingu]

looks WW2 to me ,loose stitching etc...but note some loss to front. Still a scarce badge,
regards steve

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by gasman

Hi. Anyone any ideas of originality or period used. Regards

Pretty sure someone has asked my opinion on this particular example of second pattern No.4 Cdo title previously (Light blue and pink Special IV Service predated it I believe). Use circa 1941 ish. Not the best example as mentioned by Steve, but a nice original, looking at the back - increasingly difficult to find. Would like evidence the 'COMMANDO' embroidery part was light blue NOT WHITE - often more bluish to the reverse, front sometimes fades. One of my examples attached.

[gasman]

H. many thanks you chaps for the detailed replies. The commando stitching is white and looking at the rear of the badge, between the two pieces of cloth, it has always been white. Saying that, on taking the title outside in the daylight for the very first time l can now see the light blue thread to the rear. The front has faded slightly though.

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by gasman

H. many thanks you chaps for the detailed replies. The commando stitching is white and looking at the rear of the badge, between the two pieces of cloth, it has always been white.

If 'COMMANDO' is white I would have some concerns despite the appearance of reasonable stitching to the reverse ... Convincing if it is not correct, but never been comfortable with a 'white one' having handled several over the years ... I did give this caution when I was asked for an opinion on what I think could have been this same badge quite recently.

It would be very interesting to hear what others think. I am always willing to learn ...

[gasman]

Interesting stuff. I will try and attach some clearer and more detailed pictures to get a better idea. The badge came from a veteran nearly 30 years ago but really wanted some idea of dates they were worn as can’t find any pictures.

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by gasman

Interesting stuff. I will try and attach some clearer and more detailed pictures to get a better idea. The badge came from a veteran nearly 30 years ago but really wanted some idea of dates they were worn as can’t find any pictures.

Plenty of images on the Commando Veterans Association site - now renamed Commando Association I believe. They have a photo archive - look at WW2 Commandos section - 4 Cdo - you will find some.

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/cdoGallery/main.php

For example this one;

http://gallery.commandoveterans.org/...4+cdo.jpg.html

NOTE - ALL IMAGES ON THE COMMANDO VETERANS WEBSITE ARE COPYRIGHT PROTECTED.

Date precedes adoption of standard red on black titles (designations) in 1942. It was briefly preceded by SPECIAL IV SERVICE as mentioned earlier.

Hoping this helps
Mike

[Ian Adams]

Kind greetings.
I am so sorry to be late to this thread. Busy times.

I am happy to back up Mike who I consider the expert in this field of special forces. I support the view that the early No. 4 Commando title is light blue and pink (not red). As I put these together with other badges of red, blue and khaki it is now perhaps clearer that the Special IV Service title may also not be white.

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by Ian Adams

Kind greetings.
I am so sorry to be late to this thread. Busy times.

I am happy to back up Mike who I consider the expert in this field of special forces. I support the view that the early No. 4 Commando title is light blue and pink (not red). As I put these together with other badges of red, blue and khaki it is now perhaps clearer that the Special IV Service title may also not be white.

Perfect examples Ian - many thanks for your very kind comments, respect reciprocated. Your images are excellent, clear, and illustrate the points well. It is easy to see how the blue is so pale that it can fade to white at the front - often more discernible light blue to the reverse.

If the badge is the same as I have had correspondence about - the new owner has confirmed separately that the letters are in deed faded from light blue.

Ian - loving the 4 Independent Company badge - so rare ...

[JerryBB]

this example of the special IV service title was recently posted for opinions on the net, I thought it looks fluffy but it seems to have the correct colours

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by JerryBB

this example of the special IV service title was recently posted for opinions on the net, I thought it looks fluffy but it seems to have the correct colours

It has the correct colours Jerry, but at first I thought it was a bit 'neat and tidy' at the back. We have to accept the existence of variants from the more often (but still rarely) found less neat stitching to reverse version. The stabilizer looks correct, and it has a lot going for it ... Like you, I would welcome further comments and thoughts. It is rare anyone would suggest they would be more comfortable with less neat stitching to the reverse - we almost always say the opposite - the badge has a lot going for it ...

Below - the variant I am more familiar with ...

[JerryBB]

Originally Posted by Mike B

It has the correct colours Jerry, but at first I thought it was a bit 'neat and tidy' at the back. We have to accept the existence of variants from the more often (but still rarely) found less neat stitching to reverse version. The stabilizer looks correct, and it has a lot going for it ... Like you, I would welcome further comments and thoughts. It is rare anyone would suggest they would be more comfortable with less neat stitching to the reverse - we almost always say the opposite - the badge has a lot going for it ...

Below - the variant I am more familiar with ...

thanks for showing the back of the more commonly seen type, as you say a bit messy.

My interest in this is purely academic, as someone asked online and it piqued my interest.

As these are only produced for a very short period, I guess they would not be up to the standard of, for instance, paste back titles.

as you say, it does seem to match the colours needed, but the fluffy backing fabric on the front looks very like modern fakes and I am glad I am not looking to buy one.

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by JerryBB

thanks for showing the back of the more commonly seen type, as you say a bit messy.

My interest in this is purely academic, as someone asked online and it piqued my interest.

As these are only produced for a very short period, I guess they would not be up to the standard of, for instance, paste back titles.

as you say, it does seem to match the colours needed, but the fluffy backing fabric on the front looks very like modern fakes and I am glad I am not looking to buy one.

It is a minefield Jerry - research is a definite requirement ... and a long sometimes painful apprenticeship. I was luck to have good teachers decades ago - Len Whittaker among them. Still lots to learn, and fakers getting more and more devious / informed ...