Open letter on theft of materials

well Just lifted 2 photos off their site (COLLECTOR'S GUILD) so there is no site that photos can not be lifted off. so disable the right click and it will make no difference. with the soft ware you can buy you can copy any thing

peter

[tynesideirish]

I've stated before, as a collector I have huge files of insignia pictures I've thankfully 'lifted' off the net for my own use, enjoyment and knowledge. Collecting and identifying badges is now so much easier and far better quality than dusty old M.H.S hard copies.

Obviously I have no interest in copying badges, but would need more than a picture of one, if I did. I don't think the Pakistani fake insignia industry would dry up and die if this board didn't exist.

Sharing knowledge is what this board is about. If someone copying the pictures for whatever reason bothers the originator would it not be easier for them to just not upload it and keep the precious badge to themselves rather than disrupt the whole site?

[guest_000]

Some folks just do not like their property being highjacked and used illegially for others personal gain. If it is for historical research and permission is sought that is a different matter.
The Paki site I linked is virtually proven to be loaded with stolen pictures alluding to be the product he is trying to sell the unwary.

PAUL

[guest_000]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

But this appears to be selling 3rd Reich Cloth and uniforms?

Alan

http://www.armuniform.com/

here is the entire site

[James G]

There is not a lot you can do about copyright theft in Pakistan. They have been copying firearms there since Victorian times. So lets beat them at their own game. Let them forge badges to their hearts content and invest in machinery etc. and as soon as they are released on to the market make sure as many collectiors as you know are` aware of the differences between restrikes and real badges.

[boots and saddles]

Would anyone have the right to copywrite a picture of a badge made by some one else or some other company? copywrite's are expensive. The right click would be a stumbling block though a small one. Ray

[Pylon1357]

I suppose I should read all the posts here before I reply, but I have never been accused of following the sensible course.


Many images on my web site and some of the information was high-jacked and the images used on other sites. I won't bother with the details other than this simple observation. In regards to images, nothing I have found to date has worked.

Disabling the right click feature is not going to stop or even cull the the theft of images. An automated watermark on a downloaded badge will not work either. All one has to do is hit the key "Print Screen" and save the image in an "MS Paint" format. To date, I have not figured out a way to stop this action. I have tried a few non-intrusive watermarks on the images, however these take away from the image itself.

I do understand and agree with the concerns I read here so far, a solution, I have not found yet.

Possibly requiring a post count of 50 to access the databases would be a good idea.

[guest_000]

Originally Posted by boots and saddles

Would anyone have the right to copywrite a picture of a badge made by some one else or some other company? copywrite's are expensive. The right click would be a stumbling block though a small one. Ray

WE are talking about personal copyrights RAY that we do over out own images to make them not worth highjacking. Check my album and you will see a couple of my better badges have my pers copyright on them

PAUL

Isn't this issue getting a bit out of hand ? In this world of high technology and international copyright theft, how on earth can anyone expect to preserve such things as album photographs when multi-national corporations like Nike or Christian Dior can't stop fakers from reproducing items worth far in excess of our pictures ? Please accept that if you don't want your photographs copied then don't publish them ! Keep them in a shoe box under the bed and only let your closest friends see them - that's after they've been frisked for hidden camera phones ! I have never objected to anyone taking photographs of my possessions and if they chose to make a bob or two out of it - all power to their elbow ! life is much too short without getting our knickers in a twist over this - surely ? Why not simply enjoy your colecting and share your knowledge with the world - free of charge !! Regards. David

[Pylon1357]

Originally Posted by David Douglas

Isn't this issue getting a bit out of hand ? In this world of high technology and international copyright theft, how on earth can anyone expect to preserve such things as album photographs when multi-national corporations like Nike or Christian Dior can't stop fakers from reproducing items worth far in excess of our pictures ? Please accept that if you don't want your photographs copied then don't publish them ! Keep them in a shoe box under the bed and only let your closest friends see them - that's after they've been frisked for hidden camera phones ! I have never objected to anyone taking photographs of my possessions and if they chose to make a bob or two out of it - all power to their elbow ! life is much too short without getting our knickers in a twist over this - surely ? Why not simply enjoy your colecting and share your knowledge with the world - free of charge !! Regards. David

I think David that you missed the entire point of Paul's original post.

The concern here is in regards to highly detailed badge photos being copied from the site and used to produce fake badges.

My post was my own experiences in trying to deal with the concern.


Everyone is entitled to express their own opinions on this matter and any subject on this forum. However, IMO, sorry I forgot you dislike acronyms. In my opinion, many of your posts seem to have a rather condescending attitude.

I wasn't aware that being realistic was the same as being condescending ! Do you realy believe that restrike merchants are copying photographs to produce their badges ? Quite frankly I cannot imagine how they would set about the task. The method used to restrike badges is to acquire an original and work from that - unless, of course, you are lucky enough to acquire original dies. Simply because I don't count the number of strings on a harp, the number of bricks in Inniskilling Castle or the links in the chain on a Warwicks antelope doesn't make me condescending - it makes me a realist - a realist who appreciates that those who made cap, collar and other badges did not take the forensic approach to their products that some of today's collectors do. Some Forum members are also forgetting another vital fact - many badge collectors actually collect restrikes and they do so for many reasons - not simply cost. I know many colectors who take pride in their complete frames of pre 1922 cap badges in the full knowledge that some, if not many, are not originals - so what ? In my book, the contented collector is the true colector. Condescending - well, maybe - but real ! Regards. David

[tynesideirish]

If we're getting hot under the collar about copyright, are we not breaking the Crown copyright by taking a photo of a badge in the 1st place?


I'll agree that some dodgy people on their sites or even on Evilbay, have lifted badge photos from somewhere else whilst trying to trick the unwary that it is the badge in the photo you are buying. When the unwary buys it he gets a cheap and nasty copy or nothing at all. These sites are usually obvious by the differing backgrounds and quality to the pictures shown.


That is totally different than someone producing badges entirely from a photograph. In any case I don't know a single instance mentioned in any forum where anyone has bought or buys badges from Pakistan, Thailand, China etc as you just know what you'll be getting.

The persons who we should be getting hot under the collar over are the persons on Evilbay like TNT who proudly say they'll copy any badge you ask them to and are selling and making formation signs etc. He's not stating they are real but if someone then sells it on will they say remake from TNT... Now reproducing badges in the UK must be illegal.

Point one - No ! we are not breaking copyright by photographing images of badges - there is no copyright on the IMAGES of badges - there cannot be ! Point two - I have made the point on other threads but clearly no-one has bothered to check out what I have said. I will say again. Read the description in the listing of a restrike badge. The fraudsters are very cautious and are following basic 'stay out of jail' dialogue - I believe it to be genuine, I believe it's original, selling as genuine, from my grandfather's collection, found in the attic, etc., etc. None of these statements involve either the criminal law (enforced by Trading Standards) or copyright law (enforced by the civil courts). In addition, contracts made via the internet (eBay and the like) are not well defined in contract law (Sale of Goods Act, etc.) because society hasn't come to terms with the growth, the development of this means of selling. In short - or in long - the fakers will continue to trade and get away with it because 'caveat emptor'' applies - let the buyer beware. Advice must, therefore, be - don't buy unless there is a watertight refund policy and learn from your mistakes - but at least get your money back in the process. It is pointless continuing to bang on about restrikes - they can and will NEVER be beaten by the law - only by people becoming more aware. And let us not forget those folk who are happy to buy them as restrikes - don't preach from Mount Olympus, just accept the fact that they will survive long after you have had your nervous breakdown. Me - I'm not going there, thanks. regards. David

[James G]

If a site breaches copyright then isn't the service provider also responsible as they are in effect the publisher. An E-mail to the service provider may have some effect especially if enough people do it. I understand there is an EU law being formulated at present to deal with just this issue.

[guest_000]

Gentlemen this thread was never meant to cause members to get angry and vent but was meant to bring to your attention what I thought was an ongoing problem and hopefully a solution which was A PERSONAL COPYRIGHT
on your own edit program such as I do with some of my better badges . There was no mention of official government coyrights which this seems to have gotten off to.
Further the Paki sight I have linked steals badge pictures and uses them to advertise the real junk he actually produces and sells ,this is confirmed and I am anxious to see if any have been lifted off this forum.
Sure there are many ways to beat the technology but we can slow them down a bit and make it harder and least try. I hate the stick your head in the sand and take a deep breath attitude was in the army to long.
Please take this as what it is an information thread and hopefully one of input
not a place to vent anger the members here are better than that