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#1
17-02-12, 06:42 PM
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Bizarre WW1 badge on leather, and RCAF armband- any ideas?
Hi all,
A friend of mine who collects RCMP stuff found these things the other day and bought them without knowing what exactly they were, thinking they would be good traders. I also have no idea what variants they are, though would like the armband for my own collection as I haven't seen one before. Would I be correct in thinking the Armband is WW2 RCAF Cadets? What the heck is the badge on that leather buckleish thing? Seen it before but can't place it. Thanks   
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#3
17-02-12, 07:10 PM
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Many thanks again Bill, honestly never seen one of either before, didn't know they had wristlets like that in WW1 (I have a Boer war sleeve badge though). My friend paid $100 for all three items which may have been too much, but either way neat to see something unusual.
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#5
17-02-12, 08:02 PM
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An explanation on the role of the aircraft captain.
During the Second World War in the Royal Air Force,the captain of an aircraft irrespective of rank was the person occupying the left hand seat.The captain's responsibility was placed on the specialist with the most important role in the aircraft.Even if a Station Commander flew as a"second dickey"as a second pilot was referred to,or as a "spare bod", the pilot was the captain.He was responsible for the well being of his aircraft and crew and was the person who was charged with the responsibility of delivering and executing the operation.By the very nature of the dynamic workload imposed on the pilot,it was not practical to share this responsibility with any other member of the crew.It was the person in the left hand seat who decided to press on to the target or abort an operation.As all effective "managers" with dynamic decisions in an emergency he had the option, after assessing the state of the aircraft,the state of the crew and their ability to complete an operation, of conferring with the crew if time allowed.Not altogether an autocratic approach because in the end the performance of the crew depended on their motivation and a degree of the sharing of decision making where that was possible.However nothing could dilute the the fundamental responsibility that the pilot had by being in sole charge of the aircraft. On the 4 engine heavies,the pilot was aided by specialists such as Flight Engineer,Navigator,Wireless Operator,Bomb Aimer and Gunners.These designations were those in use at the war's end and certain of them had been subject to change of title as the war had progressed.Nevertheless all these roles, irrespective of rank, were subordinates while in the air to the man in the left hand seat who could have a rank no lower than Sgt. From: http://www.ww2talk.com/forum/war-air...e-captain.html
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"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese.
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#6
17-02-12, 08:39 PM
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The wristlet strap looks very much like a strap for the older wire lugged watches I have a couple of similar looking ones on my WW1 watches. You can see where the thin strap passes through the wristlet similar to the Ww1 watch straps. I have seen a similar strap as this wristlet used on a watch
Stephen
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#7
17-02-12, 10:36 PM
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Captain of Aircraft.........another explanation.
........ from Mr. Andrew Cormack at RAF Museum, Hendon: Captain of Aircraft armbands were introduced by Air Ministry Order N 861 of 24th August 1944. No explanation of why this insignia was thought necessary is given, but it is assumed that it was to emphasize the status of the pilot of a large aircraft in relation to his crew. This emphasis was presumably thought to be required because, by this stage of the war, many pilots were NCOs whilst members of their crew could be Commissioned Officers who therefore out-ranked them and theoretically could order them to act against their own inclinations. It had always been accepted that the pilot, whatever his rank, was the leader of the team and everyone usually understood that, but presumably there had been incidents in which the conduct of an NCO pilot had been questioned by his officer crew members and a reassertion of the pilot's primacy of status was thought necessary. I have chatted to Veterans about this from time to time. Very few remember them and those who did said that their crew never used them; they all knew that 'Ginger', 'Chalky White' or 'Biffo' was the Captain of their aircraft and they did what he said. Rank had no significance once you were inside the aircraft. But obviously there must have been some incidents or else the Air Ministry would not have bothered to invent these things. http://www.network54.com/Forum/18074...rcraft+Armband
__________________
"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese.
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#8
18-02-12, 01:46 AM
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Interesting guys.... The Link Voltigeur posted mentions a photo of the armband "In Chaz Bowyers, "Bomber Group at War" there's a photo on page 92 showing an RAAF 463 Sqdn crew at Waddington."
Of course the link is old and broken, but its good to know there is some photographic evidence of it existing. Cheers Stuart
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