WW I: Royal Army Medical Corps

[Desert Rat]

I know members of the Royal Army Medical Corps (Medical Orderlies, Stretcher Bearers) wore the first patch.

Who wore the second patch (third photo)? Is it also WW I? Does anyone have a photograph showing it being worn?

[grumpy]

Strange and not noted in Clothing Regs, PVCN or the Royal Clothing ledgers.
It is true that the War Establishments for the RAMC in the Great War included RAMC stretcher bearers, who I have always inferred were of lower status/ standard of training to RAMC orderlies ...... happy to be corrected.
I cannot see any sense or reason to invent the badge shown because a non-RAMC bearer was to wear the SB armlet [and no Geneva Cross] wheres an RAMC bearer was fully entitled and protected by his Geneva badges.
There is no indication in the OP of size, but either the wreath component is huge, or the cross is miniscule.
Intriguing, but I would need a lot of collateral to become a believer.

[Toby Purcell]

Looking at the construct of the badge I think it’s genuine of the period, but either official and short-lived, with no publication of authority, or made up locally. I can see the logic in the RAMC wanting to have a special badge for their stretcher bearers, who must presumably have received superior training. Perhaps they were specialised men working on hospital trains, or some other rear area part of the casualty evacuation chain. This is one of a few badges identified in recent years that do not appear in the seminal Langley/Edwards published work on such badges.

[grumpy]

Given that RAMC units had very substantial establishments of SBs [I can look these up if asked] I find it strange that the badge in question has never, to my knowledge, appeared in wear in a period photograph.
I would become an instant believer if shown such a photo, until then I am very dubious.
To ponder the matter further, all RAMC ranks below commissioned were required to wear the large Geneva Badge on each arm [as part of Convention protection in civilized warfare]. So the OP badge would have to be in addition ....... having displayed a large Geneva badge, the man now displays a miniature version in addition.
The Law of Inherent Military Probability kicks in, surely.

[Toby Purcell]

I understand your point Grumpy, which is well made. The Red Cross badges were worn on the upper arm of course, and perhaps the badge shown was worn on lower arm. Not having seen it in use in photos would ordinarily mean a great deal, but if it was worn in very small numbers, perhaps commissioned by a single unit, or worn only by Dominion medics then that might limit its visibility. There’s nothing about it’s manufacture that suggests reproduction and what would be the motive to do so anyway. I enclose a rifle pattern double bugle badge that bears a similar method of construction using thick threads. However, I agree that the jury is out with regards to provenance.

[leigh kitchen]

If genuine is this badge likely to have been worn by RAMC?
I would've thought it'd be a private purchase Stretcher Bearer badge favoured by particular CO's for wear within their infantry battalions or whatever unit or by individuals for walking out?

[grumpy]

From memory [I can look it up if needs be] the Geneva badge, in that it conveyed very specific protections, was not even to be worn by Chaplains/ Padres etc, even though their duties were symbiotic, Thus any soldier not RAMC should not have worn any version of the cross .......... however, many SBs in the infantry including VF/TF and Militia did indeed hi-jack the badge, from photo evidence.

A nice mystery, and yes the badge looks kosher.

[Desert Rat]

The badge in question was sewn to a Canadian uniform sold on eBay recently, These are the only photos I have.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Desert Rat

The badge in question was sewn to a Canadian uniform sold on eBay recently, These are the only photos I have.

That’s extremely useful to know, l rather suspected something like that and it’s brilliant to have it confirmed. If you could post the photo in the Great War Forum a Canadian aficionado might be able to ID the unit via the collar badge.

There was something similar with pipers badges in WW1, as they too were not listed in PVCNs, etc. but they were clearly seen on Dominion forces pipers and later accepted for the British Army too.

[leigh kitchen]

Originally Posted by Desert Rat

The badge in question was sewn to a Canadian uniform sold on eBay recently, These are the only photos I have.

Any idea what the collar badge is please?
A medical corps or some other unit insignia?

[Desert Rat]

This version is known to have been worn by British and Australian soldiers.

[Desert Rat]

SB armbands were also worn.

[Desert Rat]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

Any idea what the collar badge is please?
A medical corps or some other unit insignia?

I believe it had 20th Battalion CEF (C/20) collar insignia. The colour/formation patches had been removed.

[leigh kitchen]

Thanks, so not "Medical Corps" usage but infantry battalion usage in this instance, assuming that the collar badges are original to the tunic and SB badge combination.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Desert Rat

I believe it had 20th Battalion CEF (C/20) collar insignia. The colour/formation patches had been removed.

I recall that there is a Canadian Website devoted to the WW1 Canadian regiments that contains histories from mobilisation through to deployment and that shows insignia and various photographs. Perhaps images of the SB badge shown might be found there. Has this subject been posted in the Canadian section of this website?