Royal Dublin Fusiliers insignia

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by phaethon

My today's pick up

I don't know is it even appropriate place and forum to post it but my main question is - from what period that crest would be and is it possible to date that (match?)box this way?

From the regimental title it is post 1881. It has at the top a representation of a crown used during Queen Victoria's reign, one of two frequently seen on crests and insignia. I would assess the box as being from around the time of the 2nd Anglo/Boer War, just before the death of the Queen. A hall mark or other makers mark would confirm this.

[MH331]

I hope these are of interest.

Mark

[MH331]

OSD Cap and Collars

[MH331]

I was told that the collar was sometimes used on the FS Cap. I would be grateful for any photographic confirmation. thanks Mark

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by mark holden

I was told that the collar was sometimes used on the FS Cap. I would be grateful for any photographic confirmation. thanks Mark

I believe that was true of several fusilier and other regiments for the short period between the introduction of the FSC and the design of new badges to suit it. For this interim period of between 12 and 18 months, longer if serving overseas, the glengarry badges were too large and so both collar badges and parts of shoulder title (e.g. Light Infantry bugles) were used in lieu by several regiments.

[KLR]

This topic was comprehensively discussed in
Linaker, DDA, 2004, ‘Field [Service] Cap Badges’, Crown Imperial, 113, 27-29.

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by mark holden

I was told that the collar was sometimes used on the FS Cap. I would be grateful for any photographic confirmation. thanks Mark

Mark

The F.S. Cap was obsoleted before this pattern collar badge was introduced. These smaller OSD collars date from somewhere between post 1911 and before 1914. The Brodrick replaced the F.S. Cap from 1902.

John

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

Mark

The F.S. Cap was obsoleted before this pattern collar badge was introduced. These smaller OSD collars date from somewhere between post 1911 and before 1914. The Brodrick replaced the F.S. Cap from 1902.

John

That's true John, but as you know Officers did not wear the Brodrick and continued to wear the FSC for some years. I suppose it is possible that they wore a collar badge until their own design of FSC cap badge was approved?

[John Mulcahy]

Toby

yes you are right regarding Officers and Brodricks. I believe the field cap was replaced by the service dress forage cap for officers c. 1902.

With regard to the field cap itself from c 1897 officers wore a silver & gilt version of pattern 4579 (the Elephant & Tiger upon Grenade, above the title scroll) -specified in Dress reg 1900. What I do not know is what they wore on the FSC between 1893 & 1897 was it a gilt version of the "universal grenade" or the embroidered regimental pattern forage cap badge. I suspect the latter but have no proof.


John

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

Toby

yes you are right regarding Officers and Brodricks. I believe the field cap was replaced by the service dress forage cap for officers c. 1902.

With regard to the field cap itself from c 1897 officers wore a silver & gilt version of pattern 4579 (the Elephant & Tiger upon Grenade, above the title scroll) -specified in Dress reg 1900. What I do not know is what they wore on the FSC between 1893 & 1897 was it a gilt version of the "universal grenade" or the embroidered regimental pattern forage cap badge. I suspect the latter but have no proof.


John

Spot on John and I concur with all that you say regarding the period 1893-1897. I too imagine that the bullion grenade is the most likely solution (although a collar badge is not impossible), as it seemed to have been adopted by the officers of all the fusilier regiments, apart from the Lancs Fus, who had only relatively recently become fusiliers and who it seems alone chose to adopt a gilt rather than bullion grenade overlaid with a silver motif. The RDF were certainly wearing a bullion grenade by 1914 and, unlike most (but not all) of the other fusiliers, they wore it on the front of their uniquely, Garter Blue, FSC.

[phaethon]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

From the regimental title it is post 1881. It has at the top a representation of a crown used during Queen Victoria's reign, one of two frequently seen on crests and insignia. I would assess the box as being from around the time of the 2nd Anglo/Boer War, just before the death of the Queen. A hall mark or other makers mark would confirm this.

Thank you so much! A least something to ID this item! I haven't seen this kind a box on sale or collections before. I was pretty lucky to find it but meantime probably paid way too much.
If any of you are more familiar with this, please let me know.

More RDF stuff will follow shortly.

Regards,

Timo

[Toby Purcell]

Just as an aside and to show how collar and other badges were often used for the first year after the Field Service Cap was introduced I thought that Forum members might be interested to see this photo of Royal Sussex Volunteer Battalion lads at annual camp circa 1897-98.

[phaethon]

Here is my next RDF cap badge and I would like to hear some advice... it is very bright and with the pin system on the back. It was sold by decent seller on ebay- endici.

What to you think, is it something what don't make sence or something what may be was in use around 1918-1921? Just because the pin system I think if it is real, it has to be from late RDF exist period because cost of producing, etc.. Just during the war time probably they have to keep down production costs and fancy pin system wasn't available? What you think guys, have you seen this example before?

[phaethon]

And my last find - like I experienced, few guys bid on it on ebay and it went pretty high. I was the lucky one who scoop it anyway.

My main question is, what it is, where it was used, etc? Like I have been learned, it has to be something post 1881.

Regards,

Timo

[connaught]

Originally Posted by phaethon

Here is my next RDF cap badge and I would like to hear some advice... it is very bright and with the pin system on the back. It was sold by decent seller on ebay- endici.

What to you think, is it something what don't make sence or something what may be was in use around 1918-1921? Just because the pin system I think if it is real, it has to be from late RDF exist period because cost of producing, etc.. Just during the war time probably they have to keep down production costs and fancy pin system wasn't available? What you think guys, have you seen this example before?

This looks like a genuine badge that has been gilded and turned into a sweetheart badge.