British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > It's a Mystery -Unknown Insignia for Identification

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 30-07-22, 02:41 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default What does this mean?

Hello,

Just bought the WW1 badges, medals, photos and lots of other bits of two brothers named EFENER.

Amongst them is the unofficial aluminium wrist ID bracelet tag of 59903 CQMS Charles Efener of the Royal Engineers Postal Service (R.E.P.S.).

At the bottom of the tag are 3 numbers " 20. 14. 16. " and I cannot figure out what they mean. Its not his Army Number and its not close to his birthdate, so what are they please?

regards
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CEneferIDtag.jpg (64.0 KB, 107 views)
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 30-07-22, 02:49 PM
54Bty's Avatar
54Bty 54Bty is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 6,293
Default

Total guess, date of issue.

Marc
__________________
I am still looking for British Army cloth Formation, Regimental, Battalion, Company and other Unit sleeve badges, from 1980 onwards.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 30-07-22, 03:53 PM
Home Guard's Avatar
Home Guard Home Guard is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,742
Default

Marc, If I understand British date writing you all put the day first, then the month and then the year. If that's the case, there isn't a 14th month. Makes me think it has to be some other reference, although I do agree that it looks like it should be some kind of date reference.

Just my thoughts,

Terry
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 30-07-22, 04:43 PM
XIII XIII is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 87
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
Hello,

Just bought the WW1 badges, medals, photos and lots of other bits of two brothers named EFENER.

Amongst them is the unofficial aluminium wrist ID bracelet tag of 59903 CQMS Charles Efener of the Royal Engineers Postal Service (R.E.P.S.).

At the bottom of the tag are 3 numbers " 20. 14. 16. " and I cannot figure out what they mean. Its not his Army Number and its not close to his birthdate, so what are they please?

regards
The number 20 could be the year he was demobbed 1920, 14 is when he enlisted 1914 and the last digits are likely 18 as he was MID’d in 1918. His service record is online.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 30-07-22, 05:37 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I dont think we are there yet, but keep em coming please.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 30-07-22, 08:17 PM
XIII XIII is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 87
Default

From the bible
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 30-07-22, 08:23 PM
Phil2M's Avatar
Phil2M Phil2M is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 6,314
Default

Numbers 20.14-16 mentions messengers and talks about being in Egypt.
__________________
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 30-07-22, 08:54 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil2M View Post
Numbers 20.14-16 mentions messengers and talks about being in Egypt.
Phil and XIII,

Thats certainly intriguing and definately a possibility.

Having read the paragraph it relies a lot on the concept of being in Egypt which is a bit confusing as Charles only ever served in France and Italy, but the Messenger reference may be one he thought applicable being in the Postal Section.

thanks both

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 30-07-22, 09:20 PM
XIII XIII is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 87
Default

His service record has his service abroad as India and South Africa.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 30-07-22, 09:53 PM
manchesters's Avatar
manchesters manchesters is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lancashire
Posts: 7,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by XIII View Post
His service record has his service abroad as India and South Africa.
I think you are looking at the wrong service records.

His Service Records and his MIC show firstly France on 18.7.1915 and Italy 27.11.1917.

I have his 1915 Trio also, which he wouldnt get in India or South Africa.

regards
__________________
Simon Butterworth

Manchester Regiment Collector
Rank, Prize & Trade Badges
British & Commonwealth Artillery Badges
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 30-07-22, 10:13 PM
54Bty's Avatar
54Bty 54Bty is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: London, England
Posts: 6,293
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Home Guard View Post
Marc, If I understand British date writing you all put the day first, then the month and then the year. If that's the case, there isn't a 14th month. Makes me think it has to be some other reference, although I do agree that it looks like it should be some kind of date reference.

Just my thoughts,

Terry
What no 14th Month! What is the world coming too. Just looked it up and there aint no 20th or 16th Month either, must stay off the pop.

Marc
__________________
I am still looking for British Army cloth Formation, Regimental, Battalion, Company and other Unit sleeve badges, from 1980 onwards.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 30-07-22, 11:29 PM
Chacal's Avatar
Chacal Chacal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North of the Wall of Antoninus Pius.
Posts: 1,776
Default

Does his record show his religeon? The verses given refer to the Children of Israel in Egypt which might have meaning to someone of a particular faith. Or perhaps he was a Freemason? The verses likewise could have meaning?

Just my thoughts on awakening from my pre-bed nap.

Graham
__________________
I am looking to purchase items from the British Administration Police & Prison Services in Cyrenaica & Tripolitania; Eritrea & Ethiopia; Somalia (f. Italian Somaliland) & British Somaliland; & the Dodecanese: insignia, documents, photographs etc.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 31-07-22, 06:07 AM
Alex Rice Alex Rice is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 4,738
Default

REPS - must be Royal Engineers Postal Section. Also, the numbers look like 20.14.16, not '18' at the end as suggested. Could it be a unit designation? 20th detachment, 14th platoon, 16th division, something like that (excuse my guessing).
Cheers,
Alex
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 31-07-22, 06:51 AM
XIII XIII is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 87
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by manchesters View Post
I think you are looking at the wrong service records.

His Service Records and his MIC show firstly France on 18.7.1915 and Italy 27.11.1917.

I have his 1915 Trio also, which he wouldnt get in India or South Africa.

regards
I got the info from the attached record.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 04D74943-8978-46FC-95E4-5CCED0A1549B.jpg (83.6 KB, 36 views)
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 31-07-22, 07:28 AM
Chacal's Avatar
Chacal Chacal is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: North of the Wall of Antoninus Pius.
Posts: 1,776
Default

As an aside "Enefer" is French for "Hell".

Graham
__________________
I am looking to purchase items from the British Administration Police & Prison Services in Cyrenaica & Tripolitania; Eritrea & Ethiopia; Somalia (f. Italian Somaliland) & British Somaliland; & the Dodecanese: insignia, documents, photographs etc.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:30 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.