Messenger Cap Badges - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

hagwalther · #1 20-05-10, 07:57 AM

Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any images of the following cap badges:

Messengers (War Office Messengers)
Messengers (Senior War Office Messengers)

Many Thanks!!!

Reagrds

Chris

daverpol · #2 20-05-10, 09:26 AM

I've found a photo of Dispatch Rider & Messenger trainees taken at Ministeracres in County Durham 1943.

hagwalther · #3 21-05-10, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by daverpol

I've found a photo of Dispatch Rider & Messenger trainees taken at Ministeracres in County Durham 1943.

Interesting photo.

The badges I'm looking for are around 1950, and I believe are a crown with a scroll underneath. The scroll text is different depending (I believe) on the seniority of the Messenger.

Regards

Chris

engr9266 · #4 21-05-10, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagwalther

Hi Guys,

Does anyone have any images of the following cap badges:

Messengers (War Office Messengers)
Messengers (Senior War Office Messengers)

Many Thanks!!!

Reagrds

Chris

CHRIS, From K&K vol 2 page 102/KK 2183 WAR OFFICE MESSENGER- A scroll inscribed THE WAR OFFICE surmounted by St. Edwards Crown. In gilding metal. Senior messengers in chromed.
Here are the modern (lapel) badges as I believe that they wore a anodised Queens crown in the cap.

hagwalther · #5 21-05-10, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engr9266

CHRIS, From K&K vol 2 page 102/KK 2183 WAR OFFICE MESSENGER- A scroll inscribed THE WAR OFFICE surmounted by St. Edwards Crown. In gilding metal. Senior messengers in chromed.
Here are the modern (lapel) badges as I believe that they wore a anodised Queens crown in the cap.

Thanks Jerry,

The K/K entry was what I was after.

Regards

Chris

54Bty · #6 22-05-10, 04:07 PM

Unable to find the brass one, so you will have to make do with the embroidered one. I have not seen it in aa, but that does not mean it is not out there some place.

engr9266 · #7 22-05-10, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54Bty

Unable to find the brass one, so you will have to make do with the embroidered one. I have not seen it in aa, but that does not mean it is not out there some place.

54Bty, First off can I use your picture of the messenger badge for use in my collection to show that I need to look for one??

I think when the MOD was formed in 1964(?) the badge was changed to the anod crown in the hat and the green and red lapel badges were brought into service for the messengers as shown in the post earlier.

54Bty · #8 22-05-10, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engr9266

54Bty, First off can I use your picture of the messenger badge for use in my collection to show that I need to look for one?

Yes you may use the image, thank you for asking.

hagwalther · #9 22-05-10, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54Bty

Unable to find the brass one, so you will have to make do with the embroidered one. I have not seen it in aa, but that does not mean it is not out there some place.

Hi 54Bty,

Both were authorised for issue in A/A via change C 6441. However, on the 21st November 1953 an initial issue of 700 Messenger badges in Gilding Metal and 12 Senior Messengers in chrome were made as recorded in 'Proposals To Improve', WO32/<unreadable>, National Archives, Kew. As such, I don't expect that any A/A items were ever made.

My problem was that I had no idea what they looked like and thought that a single silver crown (as per the gold version) was also used as a messengers badge but this seems to be only used as a Sergeant Majors arm rank badge.

Many Thanks All!!!

Chris

54Bty · #10 23-05-10, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hagwalther

My problem was that I had no idea what they looked like and thought that a single silver crown (as per the gold version) was also used as a messengers badge but this seems to be only used as a Sergeant Majors arm rank badge.

Many Thanks All!!!

Chris

Sorry not correct both a silver and gold aa Crown badge with slider were worn. Silver was worn by members of the the MoD Security Guards, gold by messengers as a lapel badge (with slider) in their grey jacket (when no cap was issued), and one of the first cap badges to be worn by the MoD Guard Service (MGS) before their own badge was issued.

The term messengers was (is) a little missleading as part of their job was to deliver the Mail from both MoD Main Building and the Army sorting office to the outlying units in london District.

I am still looking for the brass one it is here somewhere.

Marc

hagwalther · #11 23-05-10, 09:38 PM

Thanks 54Bty,

I have official documentation for the crown messengers badge but I believe it is gold only. I will check later. I definitely do not though have two entries - maybe the silver one is mentioned in the CCN of 1960 which I am missing.

What does the difference in colour of the gold and silver single crown badge slider badge signify?

Regards

Chris

tonyb · #12 23-05-10, 09:49 PM

Chris,
I recently did some work in New Scotland Yard, all the uniformed security staff wore an a/a silver crown cap badge, would assume this is worn by civilian staff attached to Police?
Regards Tony.

tonyb · #13 23-05-10, 10:02 PM

Sorry Chris NOT civvies these guys were armed.
Tony.

hagwalther · #14 23-05-10, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonyb

Sorry Chris NOT civvies these guys were armed.
Tony.

Thanks Tony,

Were they under control of the Military or Police?

Regards

Chris

tonyb · #15 23-05-10, 10:10 PM

Chris I didnt ask but they were in Police type uniform, will try and make some enquiries through work and get back to you.
Regards Tony.