British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Common Forums > The Home Front

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 29-07-19, 06:38 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum View Post

Note that the Firth badge has a 4-digit number whereas the associated 1916 badge has the usual "telephone number" of 5/ 6 digits....
"Over 270,000 “On War Service” badges were issued to women between May and December 1916."

Firth & Sons employed 5700 workers at Templeborough , approx. 90% were women.

If the Firth backplates were given to all female employees then the one you've shown (5172) must have been a very late issue. The 2 other ones mentioned (IWM and auction) were numbered 2646 and 3377 respectfully.

Edit : The two "Certificates of Appreciation" that the IWM have gives the name and employee number (?) of the member of staff , their job description and dates of employment.

The number on the certificate for Miss.R.Shale is the same as the number on her backplate.

1. Ada Rogers - machinist (recess) and ganger at the National Projectile Factory, Templeborough, Sheffield, March 1916 - December 1918.
2.R.Shale - machinist (chamfer) at the National Projectile Factory, Templeborough, Sheffield , March 1916 - December 1918.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted

Last edited by mike_vee; 29-07-19 at 07:40 AM. Reason: Added info
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 30-07-19, 12:52 AM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default

Hi Mike

Many thanks for your information. I really appreciate any material that can add to my/ our knowledge of this area.

So do you think that the "back plates" are some kind of merit award or that they do indicate some position in the hierarchy of the factory?

On a related matter,I did have a look at my 1915 OWS gilded, enameled badge and see that it actually has a five digit number but in very small numbers on the "half moon" clip.

I also located a 1916 triangle with, I assume, the owner's name skillfully struck on the back.

Will post a pic of this along with some intriguing "variations" on the 1916 badge. These have been posted before but I don't think that I gave an indication of size.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 30-07-19, 11:00 AM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default A different take on the OWS 1916 badge?

Hi all

As promised here are a few slightly different approaches to the well-known 1916 badge.

They seem to range from the professional small silver(?) "dangler" to the outright amateur attempt that your metal work teacher would have graded "C+"....

The small blue triangle claimed to have some Jewish link but, upon reflection, I would think that there is the YMCA (or maybe YWCA...) link. The famed "triangle Joe" of both wars.

I venture to suggest that it shows how the 1916 badge was worn beyond the factory floor and maybe even following WW1.

Anyone care to add to this selection?

PS Apologies for the "mind-altering" quality of these photos.....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ows1916a.jpg (40.5 KB, 26 views)
File Type: jpg ows1916b.jpg (32.0 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg ows1916c.jpg (37.7 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg ows1916d.jpg (36.5 KB, 12 views)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 30-07-19, 11:33 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,892
Default

Can't add to the badges , I've only got :

1. Sharp cornered brass (J.R Gaunt & Son).
2. Rounded cornered brass (J.A Wylie & Co).

Regarding the Firth backplate , I've no idea about the who/why of its awarding. If it is connected to the certificates then 'possibly' given to those who worked at the factory for the full duration women were employed there (dates on both certificates the same).

The 'hierarchy' doesn't seem to apply as one was a 'ganger' and the other simply a worker.

Found an interesting dissertation about the lives of munitions factory workers.

Women’s Work in Munitions Factories during The First
World War: Gender, Class and Public Opinion.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 30-07-19, 12:42 PM
Charliedog012012's Avatar
Charliedog012012 Charliedog012012 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: A Yorkshireman in exile 'Up North' and an ‘Honorary Smoggie’.
Posts: 904
Default

I remember reading somewhere a suggestion (and that is the context in which this should be considered) that a back plate would have a dual purpose a) to identify the munitions factory the woman was working in and b) given that the badge was triangular with sharp corners a back plate protected from the badge digging into a persons body preventing injury. Whether this is true or mere fanciful speculation I am unable to say but an interesting idea nevertheless. However I would think that if there was grain of truth in this the idea would have been adopted by other factories.
__________________
He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead; his eyes are closed. (Albert Einstein)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 30-07-19, 01:17 PM
Hawthorn Hawthorn is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 998
Default

Hope Chariledog doesn't mind, but some lovely examples here

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...p?albumid=3667

Simon
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 30-07-19, 02:04 PM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charliedog012012 View Post
the badge was triangular with sharp corners a back plate protected from the badge digging into a persons body preventing injury.
The fact that some badges were produced with rounded corners would also indicated a "health and safety" concern.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 30-07-19, 07:09 PM
Charliedog012012's Avatar
Charliedog012012 Charliedog012012 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: A Yorkshireman in exile 'Up North' and an ‘Honorary Smoggie’.
Posts: 904
Default

A quick aside but I found an interesting little site which refers to Munition works in the Uk during WW1 which might be of interest to some:

http://www.britainfromabove.org.uk/s...eme%20List.pdf
__________________
He who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead; his eyes are closed. (Albert Einstein)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 30-07-19, 08:58 PM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
The fact that some badges were produced with rounded corners would also indicated a "health and safety" concern.
Hi all

I speculated that the "round cornered" badge was an improvement to avoid mishaps (having worked briefly in a factory with the scars to prove it...).

I also wondered if the "rounding" (Swedish?) was an "unofficial" modification but if you look carefully at the edges of examples you can see that they have been sheared off and not filed as you would expect to see if this had been done "in house".

The round edge examples are not as common as the standard ones suggesting that the idea didn't really catch on. Another clue may be the numbering (many different styles of plain, serif, small and large) and I will check my "rounded" badge and see where it fits in to the series.

By the way a BIG thanks to all those who've contributed to the post. It's more than added to my meagre knowledge....
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 31-07-19, 02:20 AM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawthorn View Post
Hope Chariledog doesn't mind, but some lovely examples here

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...p?albumid=3667

Simon
Some really nice items there and great to see some most unusual material. I've been collecting for a few years now and do have "doubles". Feel free to PM me if you are actively collecting.

My failing memory has sometimes caused me to buy the same badge twice off eBay..... but I did avoid the "trap" today by recalling that I had got that one so thereby saved a couple of quid....
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 31-07-19, 02:26 AM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
Can't add to the badges , I've only got :

1. Sharp cornered brass (J.R Gaunt & Son).
2. Rounded cornered brass (J.A Wylie & Co).

Regarding the Firth backplate , I've no idea about the who/why of its awarding. If it is connected to the certificates then 'possibly' given to those who worked at the factory for the full duration women were employed there (dates on both certificates the same).

The 'hierarchy' doesn't seem to apply as one was a 'ganger' and the other simply a worker.

Found an interesting dissertation about the lives of munitions factory workers.

Women’s Work in Munitions Factories during The First
World War: Gender, Class and Public Opinion.
Thanks so much for the extra reading material. It will make a change from the TV and the nightly "invasion" of cooking shows and DIY dross (with apologies to those who like this stuff)....
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 31-07-19, 10:02 AM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default 1915/ 1916 oddities?

Hi all

Possibly not the best pics of these badges but I think that you can get the idea.

The 1916 badges are maybe a bit different in that the one has been "personalised" with the owner's name (A. SHACKLETON) and the other has has "service bars" added.

I did see one of the latter some years back on eBay but without the five pounds of solder that the owner of this badge felt was needed to hold them in place....

Of the 1915 line up, I felt that the standard badge with the enamel infill was "different".

Note that the plated (or white metal?) one has a 4-digit number much like the blue/ white version shown. Until now, I'd never noticed that the blue/ white badges I have do not have a letter to the back of the crown (or elsewhere for that matter)

I have posted these before but decided to post again making more of a feature of them.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1916duo.JPG (24.2 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg 1916duo2.JPG (23.8 KB, 12 views)
File Type: jpg 1915types2.JPG (31.1 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg 1915types3.JPG (25.5 KB, 12 views)
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 31-07-19, 11:23 AM
mike_vee's Avatar
mike_vee mike_vee is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Uxbridge
Posts: 4,892
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dumdum View Post
I'd never noticed that the blue/ white badges I have do not have a letter to the back of the crown (or elsewhere for that matter)
After reading the other thread on the 1915 badges , is it possible/probable that only 'one series' of the enamelled badges was issued (hence no need for a letter) before they started with the basic badges.
__________________
British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative.

Poppy and British Legion Wanted
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 31-07-19, 07:49 PM
dumdum's Avatar
dumdum dumdum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,447
Default 1915 "generics"

Hi

Having made several recent posts about the "official" OWS badges, I was moved to re-post some of the infinite variety of what you might call the "generic" 1915 badges.

I'm been truly astounded by the range and design of them and I've even bought another (not in the scan) that is yet again different.

Like the small "pie crust" edge one? I do!

By the way, that silver-looking round badge is actually thin silver but not marked as such.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg ows1915A.jpg (32.5 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg ows1915B.jpg (67.4 KB, 23 views)
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 31-07-19, 08:06 PM
Chipper's Avatar
Chipper Chipper is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: France
Posts: 905
Default

Hi Mike,

as I understand it, these were all made by Gaunt, and quickly replaced with all GM/brass. From my research, the only markings on them are the gaunt maker mark, and this comes in 2 variations, a small mark, behind the crown, as seen in Dumdum's picture, and a larger mark, which curves around the fixing.

DD - as always, some super examples, thanks for showing them!

Cheers, Tim




Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
After reading the other thread on the 1915 badges , is it possible/probable that only 'one series' of the enamelled badges was issued (hence no need for a letter) before they started with the basic badges.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:10 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.