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  #1  
Old 04-04-18, 03:36 PM
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Default Odd RM badges

Wondering if anyone can offer thoughts/opinions on these. Have sent pictures of both to the museum but thought I'd pick the forum's collective brain whilst awaiting a reply.
First an oddity owned by a fellow collector and acquired some years ago by his father (from whome he inherited the collection).
Seems fairly obvious that anchor chopped off at the bottom and seems as if QVC added to the top (at expense of GIBRALTAR scroll perhaps?). The badge itself does not seem to have been cut out of a helmet plate and seems to be approximately the same size as officer's glengarry.
Have searched through John's book trying to match the design of the laurels etc. Closest (nigh on identical to my eye) is the centre section of KC Officer's helmet plate (composite comparison picture to illustrate this).
The big but is that this one does not have voiding of letters. That lack of voiding suggests it is not officer's but I cannot find any similar pattern in ORs or NCOs badges. ORs/NCOs Glengarry, totally spurious badge or what?
S1031410_crop.jpg

S1031406_crop.jpg

compare.jpg
The second badge is in my collection. Multi part badge (which usually suggests officers) and quite large (see comparison to internee badge). Looking through John's book I wondered if early RMLI SNCO perhaps?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CP3c 15.jpg (107.0 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF4341.jpg (37.2 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg oddity1.jpg (82.0 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg oddity2.jpg (74.5 KB, 5 views)
File Type: jpg oddity3.jpg (68.8 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg oddity4.jpg (59.6 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg DSCF6284.jpg (19.5 KB, 24 views)
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  #2  
Old 08-04-18, 05:44 PM
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Hi Ray
I think I have seen both of these, or very similar examples before.
Both I think are made up of parts and I fear are designed to mislead collectors.

The first is based on a blank before that has been pressed before the fret work takes place to create the voiding. I have examples of these for a couple of different helmet plates.

The second one, the pattern of globe is a clue, this is from an 1878 RMLI officers helmet plate. It is just of a completely different quality to the laurels. The laurels are interesting, they look early and I have always thought MIGHT be RM but I've never traced them in any images and a surprising number of images exist back to the 1850s.

Sorry I can't be more positive
Yours
John
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  #3  
Old 11-04-18, 08:06 AM
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John. Grateful for your input. Must admit I thought the first one must be KC plate before lettering isolated and that the obviously added crown/chopped anchor suggested a none official badge. Considered a sweetheart but lugs tends to exclude that. Not sure if it is designed to con collectors with the errors being so obvious.
I noted the globe design in second. Given the difference in quality of the two pieces I must admit I wondered if the globe was added later. What really confused me was the size/design of the laurel wreath - and the suggestion that the globe had replaced something (another design of globe?).
I have little knowledge or reference of units outside the Corps (here or abroad) to know if the design of the laurel matches anything anywhere.
The book indicates/suggests early SNCO badges featured larger than average wreaths, which made me wonder .....
Ray
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  #4  
Old 12-04-18, 03:37 PM
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Default Officer Picture

Attached 2 pictures from the book. Not done to try and convince anyone that mine is a good ‘un but drawing attention to the fact that here we seem to have two badges that appear in pictures but not perhaps seen in collections, auctions etc.
Obviously drawing/painting of a badge would not necessarily be particularly accurate for the design but only suitable for a general reference
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File Type: jpg EF3D149F-B934-4B81-A068-DE3D0FEE49AD.jpg (45.7 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg C82F72CB-BE35-4A4C-990A-EAAF57AD6304.jpg (40.7 KB, 20 views)
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  #5  
Old 15-04-18, 09:00 AM
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Default Reply from museum

Bit of a double negative. They feel the badges are both composites from other badges but their collection is too vast to search for which badges, and the museum is shut for 2 years (moving into dockyard) so I cannot search through myself
Ray
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  #6  
Old 29-04-18, 10:03 AM
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Ray,
I know their collection very well (I cataloged and photographed it when researching the badge book).

They don't have any badges similar to either of the ones your questions are about.

There was a fire at Gaunt, I think during WW2, amd the museum were donated the spare parts that had been salvaged, so have a lot manufacturer's blanks and a very few prototypes that never made production. Within this lot are examples of the all of the parts your badge is made from stand fast the laurel leaves.
Yours
John
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