Para Signals Officer's Bullion Beret Badge Kings Crown

[Chris Walker]

Dear Friends.

Back in September 2011 I started a Thread called 1st Airborne Div. Signals Officer's Bullion Badge 1943.

I was going to continue this Thread but thought I would start another one in the same vein due to a question I should like to ask members.

Other than the photo I show from the Royal Signals Museum of a Maroon Backed Signals Badge on a Maroon beret which is quite genuine I had never actually seen a Signals Badge on a Maroon backing with a Kings Crown.

Now it is a known fact that from the out set of Signals Airborne troops Officers wore the bullion badge long before the design changed in 1946 whilst at the same time other ranks wore the roundel style Signals badge. It is also a known fact that the badge was not an issue item but a private purchase item and hence made by a bespoke tailor and so there would probably never be two with exactly the same design. All good stuff so far.

With the change of name from 2nd Independent Para Bde Signal Squadron in 1948 to 16 Independent Para Bde Group Signal Squadron which was the forerunner in 1959 of 216 Para Signals (Para Bde Gp) then 216 Para Signal Squadron the Kings Crown changed in 1955 from the Kings Crown (Tudor Crown) to the Queen's Crown (St Edwards Crown) No problem there either.

The bullion badge that Officers of the Squadron wore changed slightly to include the globe that was on the Other Ranks roundel badge but not on the Officer's Bullion badge and this is how the badge is used today.

As I mentioned in my original Thread I had never until very recently seen in the flesh so to speak an Officer's Bullion badge on a Maroon backing with the Tudor Crown until now.

I have attached below a Signal Officer's Bullion badge with a Tudor Crown on a Maroon backing. This is the very first I have ever seen. It is my thought that it is possibly a 16 Ind Para Bde Group Sig Sqn Badge dating from 1953 or 1954 but I must say it is only my thought.

I would very much appreciate the views of any other member of the Forum who may have any other ideas at to this Airborne Signals Beret Badge with a Tudor Crown.

I have several Royal Signals Officer's Beret Badges and Caps FS badges of the same period and as they are all private purchase hence they all differ ever so slightly.

The attached photo is of a used version of the badge but is in very good condition. I am still at the time of writing waiting to receive the badge.

Your comments would be very much appreciated.

With my best wishes

Chris Walker
www.signalsbadges.co.uk

[engr9266]

Originally Posted by Chris Walker

Dear Friends.

Back in September 2011 I started a Thread called 1st Airborne Div. Signals Officer's Bullion Badge 1943.

I was going to continue this Thread but thought I would start another one in the same vein due to a question I should like to ask members.

Other than the photo I show from the Royal Signals Museum of a Maroon Backed Signals Badge on a Maroon beret which is quite genuine I had never actually seen a Signals Badge on a Maroon backing with a Kings Crown.

Now it is a known fact that from the out set of Signals Airborne troops Officers wore the bullion badge long before the design changed in 1946 whilst at the same time other ranks wore the roundel style Signals badge. It is also a known fact that the badge was not an issue item but a private purchase item and hence made by a bespoke tailor and so there would probably never be two with exactly the same design. All good stuff so far.

With the change of name from 2nd Independent Para Bde Signal Squadron in 1948 to 16 Independent Para Bde Group Signal Squadron which was the forerunner in 1959 of 216 Para Signals (Para Bde Gp) then 216 Para Signal Squadron the Kings Crown changed in 1955 from the Kings Crown (Tudor Crown) to the Queen's Crown (St Edwards Crown) No problem there either.

The bullion badge that Officers of the Squadron wore changed slightly to include the globe that was on the Other Ranks roundel badge but not on the Officer's Bullion badge and this is how the badge is used today.

As I mentioned in my original Thread I had never until very recently seen in the flesh so to speak an Officer's Bullion badge on a Maroon backing with the Tudor Crown until now.

I have attached below a Signal Officer's Bullion badge with a Tudor Crown on a Maroon backing. This is the very first I have ever seen. It is my thought that it is possibly a 16 Ind Para Bde Group Sig Sqn Badge dating from 1953 or 1954 but I must say it is only my thought.

I would very much appreciate the views of any other member of the Forum who may have any other ideas at to this Airborne Signals Beret Badge with a Tudor Crown.

I have several Royal Signals Officer's Beret Badges and Caps FS badges of the same period and as they are all private purchase hence they all differ ever so slightly.

The attached photo is of a used version of the badge but is in very good condition. I am still at the time of writing waiting to receive the badge.

Your comments would be very much appreciated.

With my best wishes

Chris Walker
www.signalsbadges.co.uk

AH, so it was you who out bid me at the last moment..Grrrrr Well done Chris.

Jerry.

[Mike_2817]

Some good info in the original tread which you reference. But you need a link to it

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=19499

[Chris Walker]

Sorry Jerry.

Ebay with held who the other bidder was.

I was determined to get hold of this badge good or bad. Delighted you didn't push me too far on price.

Cheers

Chris

[fougasse1940]

All the unofficial bullion wartime badges, wether on maroon or dark blue background, and even the pre-war bullion Coloured Field Service cap badges I'm aware of lack the globe and laurels, so I'd be inclined to think this one dates to 12th August 1946, the date of the sealed pattern of the oval-less metal badge, to 9th March 1954, when the St Edward crown was confirmed by the Corps Committee.

Rgds, Thomas.

[Chris Walker]

Dear James

Many thanks for the reply and I agree with the dates you mention for the change over from the Tudor Crown to the St Edward's Crown in the ACI 63 of 1953 and confirmed in respect of the Corps by Corps Committee on 9th March 1954.

The sealed Pattern for the change over of the original 1921 pattern cap badge to the 1946 pattern cap badge and held in the Corps Museum and dated 12th August 1946 had the Tudor Crown (Kings Crown) until 1954. This is the version of badge I show on this Thread with a Tudor Crown and hence pre 1954 or even 1955 when the badges were actually issued.

My problem is James I am trying to assess whether the badge I show is genuine or not. As I mentioned I believe it could be 16th Independent Para Bde Gp Signal Squadron dated around 1953 when the Tudor Crown was still in use.16th Ind Para Bde Gp Sig Sqn came into being in 1948 and did not change it's name until 1959 when it became 216 Para Sigs (Para Bde Gp) Signal Squadron. By this time of course the badge would have been the St. Edward's Crown (Queen's Crown).

The Globe at the bottom of the badge and the laurel leaves were agreed in the
sealed pattern held in the Corps Museum and dated 12th August 1946. So yes the badge did indeed have the Globe and Laurel leaves in 1953.

I will admit lots of the Officer's Caps FS badges that I have and dated pre 1946 and some after that date did not have the globe and laurel leaves. This omission in my opinion is down to the individual tailor who made the Officer's Private purchase badges in many cases.

What do you think of the badge I show? Is it too modern in design for the period or not? It most certainly is a Tudor Crown.

Best wishes

Chris
www.signalsbadges.co.uk