Royal Irish Fusiliers WOII

[phaethon]

Hi,

I just got one nice portrait of Warrant Officer from Royal Irish Fusiliers. Picture is made by J.E.Beehan, Rathmines Studio, Dublin.

Does anyone can determinate a period, when this photo was made? Looks like he has two place ribbon bar as well. Unfortunately zooming do not help to see what awards he had. QSA/KSA pair perhaps?

[Toby Purcell]

It is a wonderful portrait and shows a proper officer style, superior cloth jacket, as worn by the sergeant major of battalion (later known as RSM). The twisted cord shoulder straps were changed to ordinary cloth after 1908, so that helps to date the photograph. It would seem unlikely that he survived the war, but I suppose he might have been one of the lucky ones.

The medals might well be QSA and KSA, as you suggest, but the configuration of the ribbons is hard to discern.

[Tinto]

Great photo, thanks. Is he wearing a one-piece or two-piece hat badge?
Cheers, Tinto

[phaethon]

Thanks guys for fast replies!

Tinto, that's the best what I can do:

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

It is a wonderful portrait and shows a proper officer style, superior cloth jacket, as worn by the sergeant major of battalion (later known as RSM). The twisted cord shoulder straps were changed to ordinary cloth after 1908, so that helps to date the photograph. It would seem unlikely that he survived the war, but I suppose he might have been one of the lucky ones.

The medals might well be QSA and KSA, as you suggest, but the configuration of the ribbons is hard to discern.

I concur with you old friend and what a beauty of a photo. As you rightly state a "Sergeant Major", with crown on the lower cuff and not a WOII - which is a popular mis-conception among collectors, unaware of the rank structure and badges pre-1915.

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

It is a wonderful portrait and shows a proper officer style, superior cloth jacket, as worn by the sergeant major of battalion (later known as RSM). The twisted cord shoulder straps were changed to ordinary cloth after 1908, so that helps to date the photograph. It would seem unlikely that he survived the war, but I suppose he might have been one of the lucky ones.

The medals might well be QSA and KSA, as you suggest, but the configuration of the ribbons is hard to discern.

I have been pondering the survival chances of an infantry S-M of pre-1908.
Not quite as bad I think as at first sight: in six years he might well have retired in that appointment, as time-served, and volunteer to come back ...... in which case there was a decent chance of being held back as an instructor.
Alternatively, he might have been commissioned as QM with a higher chance of action but a risk factor a little below that of a combatant officer [I did some comparative stats once, and they showed a slightly better survival rate for QMs compared with any other officer in a battalion except to RMO.

Since S-Ms of regular battalions were listed in some if not all Army Lists, and since they tended to enjoy a fairly long tenure, and since we can narrow the period to no more than six years, it is possible he might be traced as one of only two or three possible names. Nice job for someone interested in the regiment!

And he looks a man I would rather have as a friend than an enemy.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by Graham Stewart

I concur with you old friend and what a beauty of a photo. As you rightly state a "Sergeant Major", with crown on the lower cuff and not a WOII - which is a popular mis-conception among collectors, unaware of the rank structure and badges pre-1915.

Who ever thought we would still be in contact now Graham, back when we first met in the mid 80s!

I suspect that the jacket was made up by the battalion tailor as there is a lot of bad puckering in the shoulder seams. The collar badges are the officers type of that time, as are the large buttons. That year (1908) the officers adopted an open rever collar to the jacket and a soft collared shirt and tie, but the SM retained the closed collar and thus marked out his status. It is an image that bespeaks an era.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by grumpy

I have been pondering the survival chances of an infantry S-M of pre-1908.
Not quite as bad I think as at first sight: in six years he might well have retired in that appointment, as time-served, and volunteer to come back ...... in which case there was a decent chance of being held back as an instructor.
Alternatively, he might have been commissioned as QM with a higher chance of action but a risk factor a little below that of a combatant officer [I did some comparative stats once, and they showed a slightly better survival rate for QMs compared with any other officer in a battalion except to RMO.

Since S-Ms of regular battalions were listed in some if not all Army Lists, and since they tended to enjoy a fairly long tenure, and since we can narrow the period to no more than six years, it is possible he might be traced as one of only two or three possible names. Nice job for someone interested in the regiment!

And he looks a man I would rather have as a friend than an enemy.

Yes, it would be very interesting to trace his fate.

[phaethon]

No idea how to trace him, however, would be great if it is possible.
I will try to use R.Ir.Fus. pictures for a trade against RDF shot(s), if I can find a R.Ir.Fus collector who wants them .

Here is one more Royal Irish Fusiliers soldier portrait, made in Cairo (Imperial Photo Studio, Cairo). So, he was a 10th Irish Division soldier and I presume around 1915-1916?

[phaethon]

Here is one more picture. I didnt want to start doing extra threat. What you guys think, whats the unit shoulder title he worn. Can it be some kind a Territorial Royal Garrison Artillery?

I can't figure out his ribbon bar as well. Probably Effiency medal?



Here is the full picture

[Tinto]

Hi,
Looks like T/RGA/DORSET or T/RGA/DURHAM to me.
Cheers, Tinto

[JimD]

I think the ribbon might be an Ashanti Medal 1900.

Cheers
Jim

[phaethon]

Thanks guys for info.

Timo