Mystery painting

[davidwyke]

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

David,

Whilst I still think we have not found the right man yet, I have come across photos that have been hand coloured and have been embellished as well, the addition of medal ribbon bars being painted on being an example.

The point I am trying to make is that sometimes you might not be looking at a photo as it was originally taken.

Peter

Peter

Yes, you have a point. If the original photo has been "embellished" at a later date then it's possible you have the right man but difficult to prove unless the officer you have found sounds familiar to the person making the query.

David

[davidwyke]

Hi Chaps

Just re-reading the obituary which Peter has posted, the officer detailed doesn't seem to qualify for the France & Germany Star. However, the ribbons shown could also be: MC (& bar?) / 1939-45 Star / Africa Star (& clasp) / Italy Star / Defence Medal / War Medal.

A further thought regarding the use of possible "artistic licence" - there appears to be a tiny clasp on the Africa Star ribbon but in reality the clasp was only worn on the full length medal ribbon - the small numeral "1" or "8" would have been worn on the ribbon bar.

David

[leigh kitchen]

Or a rose to represent the bar North Africa 1942-43.

[davidwyke]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

Or a rose to represent the bar North Africa 1942-43.

Hi Leigh

As you say, a silver rose for the "North Africa" clasp but did the Army qualify for that? I thought it was just RN, MN & RAF?

David

[Peter Brydon]

Whilst appreciating that this may well not be the man in the picture which started this thread, here is the sale of medals of Charles Gregson:

http://www.lawrences.co.uk/Catalogue...115/lot0356.ht

or:

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/au...b-a54400ca4d0b

P.B.

[davidwyke]

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

Whilst appreciating that this may well not be the man in the picture which started this thread, here is the sale of medals of Charles Gregson:

http://www.lawrences.co.uk/Catalogue...115/lot0356.ht

or:

http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/au...b-a54400ca4d0b

P.B.

Pity the ribbons aren't shown as I can't make out just which stars they are but I suspect the medal group is as I detailed above.

I'm beginning to think it might be the right man. There are some anomalies with the portrait but if artistic licence is involved it's impossible to determine just how close to reality the portrait actually is.

David

[leigh kitchen]

Originally Posted by davidwyke

Hi Leigh

As you say, a silver rose for the "North Africa" clasp but did the Army qualify for that? I thought it was just RN, MN & RAF?

David

Apologies, you're right - another brain blip - a little worrying when it's not alcohol induced.

[davidwyke]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

Apologies, you're right - another brain blip - a little worrying when it's not alcohol induced.

Chances are it will be over the next couple of weeks!!

[BWEF]

Originally Posted by davidwyke

Hi Chaps

A few thoughts to add to the mix.

I think Leigh is correct with the medal entitlement. Can't decide whether it's only MC or whether it's MC & Bar. (My eyes hurt! )

Can't decide whether they are ball buttons or not, if they are then that suggests a Hussar or possibly RHA connection.

Peter has highlighted a very brave man with a sad story but, as he says, I don't think it's the right man. He died in 12/1944 and I don't think the most recent ribbons the officer in the painting has up would have been authorised by then. Also, as far as I know Derbyshire Yeo were never designated as Hussars and never wore ball buttons

I would guess that the painting dates from the late 1940's. Could the collar badge possibly be Royal Horse Artillery? I think they were introduced in the late 1940's but not sure; were they worn on that order of dress?

David

Sir Peter Hilton is another possible candidate. Certainly worth looking into.

He has Derbyshire connections, had a bar to his MC, and I believe a second bar was won in Korea. He was in RHA in 7th Armoured in north Africa and Italy and returned to the UK for the Normandy invasion.

The good thing about Sir Peter is that it ought to be fairly easy to find photo's of him as he ended up as Lord Lieutenant of Derbyshire.

[Peter Brydon]

Sir Peter Hilton photo.

http://www.picturethepast.org.uk/fro...=2&action=zoom

P.B.

[aged]

Close up of medals.

[aged]

close up

[davidwyke]

Originally Posted by aged

close up

Military Cross (single award, no rosette as far as I can see), 1939-1945 Star, Africa Star (with what looks like might be a miniature clasp, which in reality only officially existed in full size), France & Germany Star, Defence Medal, War Medal.

If the depiction is accurate I think that rules out the Officer Peter found.

David

PS.....the details Peter found, also mention a brother - Geoffrey, presumably also an officer. I wonder if he could have won the MC and served in Europe by any chance?.......

[Peter Brydon]

Back to the Drawing Board.

Aged,

Do you have any more clues, for example where does the connection with Belper come from ?

The single M.C. opens up the number of possibilities enormously but I am sure we would all like to identify the man if at all possible.

Peter

[Cribyn]

Hello

You may have tried this already (and it is not a quick fix) but what about putting a letter (with the photo) in some local Derbyshire papers? The portrait is very well executed as far as facial details are concerned, so I am sure some relative, friend or colleague would recognise him.

Fascinating thread by the way, all the research that is being done, on medals, possible names and so on. I wouldn't know where to start!

Regards
Roger