Australian Command badges 1950s.

[BEFman]

As part of a cataloguing project I am trying to pin down some details on the cloth formation signs adopted by the Australian Army around 1950. In addition to the standard reference works I have found a couple of well-referenced articles on the Internet* and have received some helpful personal advice but a number of details remain obscure. I am hoping that the collective expertise on this Forum can help. For the information to be useable it really needs to be tied back to some kind of reference and authority but I will, of course, be grateful for any advice, whether by way of direct answers or through suggestions about where to look. The most obvious approach, a trip to the Australian archives, might be beyond the household budget as I live in the UK.

The specific queries are as follows.

1. What were the actual dates of formation of the Commands and their constituent Divisions and Brigades? I would prefer to list something rather less vague than “around 1950”.

2. Did 7 Infantry Brigade have a territorial affiliation?

3. What is the origin of 7 Brigade’s heraldic gryphon sign? I can find no similar device on any of the National or State grants of arms, the origins of most of these signs.

4. There is a clear indication that 1st Brigade Group, the mainly Regular formation, was formed after the Commands and other formations (possibly as late as 1957?). Can anyone provide evidence of the actual date?

5. There is also evidence that the four AGRAs were formed later than the Commands, Divisions and Brigades. Can anyone offer evidence of exactly when?

6. Arising from the above, can anyone advise exactly when the specific Command and formation signs were adopted, or at least approved?

7. The formations within the Commands seem to have been broken up at the time that the Pentropic organization was adopted, around 1960, but is there information on the specific dates?

8. There seems to be some evidence that 1st Brigade Group and at least two of the AGRAs (4 & 5?) were broken up at different times from the main series of formations and it would be helpful to know exactly when in each case.

9. Although its components changed, 3 Divisions remained in being after 1960. Did this formation retain the old sign, adopt a new one or wear no sign?

10. Similarly, it is said that the Command signs ceased to be used at about the same time that the Divisions and Brigades were broken up. However, although the Australian Army as a whole was remarkably different following the formation of the State Regiments, the Commands remained in being. It must, therefore, be open to question whether they retained their former badges after 1960. If so, for how long and if not, what did they adopt instead, if anything?

Don't want much, do I?!


*I found the two following papers helpful:

THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE AUSTRALIAN REGULAR ARMY, 1944 – 1952.
Major Graeme Sligo.

FROM KOREA TO PENTROPIC: THE ARMY IN THE 1950s AND EARLY 1960s.
David Horner.
Both from: “The Second Fifty Years: The Australian Army 1947 – 1997.”
Chief of the Army’s Conference, 1997, found at
http://www.army.gov.au/ahu/The_Second_Fifty_Years.asp.

Also, courtesy of AWM:
A CASUALTY OF CHANGE.
Peter Burness.
Wartime, Issue 26.

[slick_mick]

Wow - quite a task your doing.

Have you tried approaching the Army History Unit in Canberra? They may have some of the information you seek.

Mick

[BEFman]

Thanks for the thought Mick, but I have tried that and the e-mail contact details given on their website return as non-deliverable, permanent error. I also cannot find a snail-mail address for them so cannot get in under the e-wire. Mind you, if they are discouraging contact I for one can hardly blame them - imagine my queries landing on your desk to spoil your day / week / month!!

Mike Taylor

[Chrisr]

Mike,

Try this one roger.lee@defence.gov.au

Cheers
Chris

[BEFman]

Thanks for that. The e-mail address I was using came from AHU Website and had an additional "cbr" in the line. Have now had a very helpful reply.
Not sure if these anorak queries are of any interest to others but if I do make sense of all this I would be happy to share if anyone is interested.
Mike.

[Brian0338]

Originally Posted by BEFman

As part of a cataloguing project I am trying to pin down some details on the cloth formation signs adopted by the Australian Army around 1950. In addition to the standard reference works I have found a couple of well-referenced articles on the Internet* and have received some helpful personal advice but a number of details remain obscure. I am hoping that the collective expertise on this Forum can help. For the information to be useable it really needs to be tied back to some kind of reference and authority but I will, of course, be grateful for any advice, whether by way of direct answers or through suggestions about where to look. The most obvious approach, a trip to the Australian archives, might be beyond the household budget as I live in the UK.

The specific queries are as follows.

1. What were the actual dates of formation of the Commands and their constituent Divisions and Brigades? I would prefer to list something rather less vague than “around 1950”.

2. Did 7 Infantry Brigade have a territorial affiliation?

3. What is the origin of 7 Brigade’s heraldic gryphon sign? I can find no similar device on any of the National or State grants of arms, the origins of most of these signs.

4. There is a clear indication that 1st Brigade Group, the mainly Regular formation, was formed after the Commands and other formations (possibly as late as 1957?). Can anyone provide evidence of the actual date?

5. There is also evidence that the four AGRAs were formed later than the Commands, Divisions and Brigades. Can anyone offer evidence of exactly when?

6. Arising from the above, can anyone advise exactly when the specific Command and formation signs were adopted, or at least approved?

7. The formations within the Commands seem to have been broken up at the time that the Pentropic organization was adopted, around 1960, but is there information on the specific dates?

8. There seems to be some evidence that 1st Brigade Group and at least two of the AGRAs (4 & 5?) were broken up at different times from the main series of formations and it would be helpful to know exactly when in each case.

9. Although its components changed, 3 Divisions remained in being after 1960. Did this formation retain the old sign, adopt a new one or wear no sign?

10. Similarly, it is said that the Command signs ceased to be used at about the same time that the Divisions and Brigades were broken up. However, although the Australian Army as a whole was remarkably different following the formation of the State Regiments, the Commands remained in being. It must, therefore, be open to question whether they retained their former badges after 1960. If so, for how long and if not, what did they adopt instead, if anything?

Don't want much, do I?!


*I found the two following papers helpful:

THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE AUSTRALIAN REGULAR ARMY, 1944 – 1952.
Major Graeme Sligo.

FROM KOREA TO PENTROPIC: THE ARMY IN THE 1950s AND EARLY 1960s.
David Horner.
Both from: “The Second Fifty Years: The Australian Army 1947 – 1997.”
Chief of the Army’s Conference, 1997, found at
http://www.army.gov.au/ahu/The_Second_Fifty_Years.asp.

Also, courtesy of AWM:
A CASUALTY OF CHANGE.
Peter Burness.
Wartime, Issue 26.

I was posted to a unit in Puckapunyal Victoria in Sept 1955 that was part of the 1st Independent Infantry Brigade, a red shield with crossed swards underneath, thence to a Northern Command unit (Queensland) where my formation sign worn was a Maltese Cross with a crown in the centre. I have formation signs for both of those still, plus the Waratah of NSW (Eastern Command) and the blue shield with the Southern Cross for Southern Command (Victoria) and in those days many Army headquarters units were located in Victoria, and only a few in Canberra, and they wore the AHQ formation sign of a shield with the top half red and the bottom half blue, and on the shield is a crown surmounted by a lion surmounted by a crown. I have all these formation signs, and will be happy to swap them for some stuff I am looking for that have connections to family member and I want them just for family history purposes.