What Does Badge Collecting Mean To You?

[Deejayuu]

Strange heading but with all the upsets and misunderstandings that have taken place over the last few weeks i thought it prudent to gauge what the consesus is on how people collect, what they collect and views on repro badges.
Having been in the collecting game now for over 20 years i have seen many collections, each i must say have been arranged, displayed and loved very differently. For example, what condition should a badge be in for display? I know of a few collectors as well as a renown dealer that believe that a badge should be bright and shiny, well polished and fit for the RSM`s inspection. Dipped, stripped and polished! I have sent back a genuine helmet plate that was acid dipped and polished. Another point of view would be to leave the badge as is patina and all to let the badge show its age. Removal of soldiers friend or the occasional rub down is ok but the patina is vital.

Do you group your badges? I have come across collectors who like to group badges in sealed frame with each frame having a theme. WWI infantry, cavalry, territorials, kitcheners army etc. For these people a complete frame is what they wish to achieve. The line infantry and to a lesser extent the cavalry would be straight forward to obtain genuine examples of each regiment. But what of the less common badges? Say i wanted a frame of kitcheners army badges. How long would it take (if it all) to obtain all the unit badges? A considerable time! Consider i have many of the Kitcheners army badges, enough originals to make a decent frame, would i not consider using temporary quality reproduction badges as space fillers until i could get my hands on a genuine example. I could put a wonderful frame on the wall then!

What are your views on repaired or damaged badges in the collection. New slider or lugs, lance tip missing, enamel chipped, general repair? Again, some use them as space fillers others avoid them. I personally have several badges that have been brought back from the brink that have been proffessionally repaired. For some of the scarce badges you sometimes only get one bight of the cherry regardless of condition. Is it a case of waiting indefinately for a perfect example which may never become available or do you accept the repaired badge?

What about variations? Would you seek out examples of the same sealed pattern badge made by several manufacturers? I have come across them.

I am not wanting to start a mud slinging contest here but i think it would be good to hear how individuals collect. Each of us has views and opinions and they are all valid. Of all the colleciotns i have seen, i have not seen two the same, each one is individual and specific to that collector. Likewise there views and opinions are specific to each collector. There is no right or wrong way of collecting, just a different set of goals and objectives!

If we understand each other maybe we can avoid these head to head confronations that have caused so many valued collectors to leave through other members not comprehending that there are alternative ways of collecting other than their own way.

Cheers, Dave

[ard-ri]

Great thread Dave,

I have been collecting badges for over thirty years. When I first started collecting, my lofty goal was to collect every British badge ever made. I very soon realized that that goal would be impossible. From this first goal I then moved on to collecting the rarest badges, this too I found to be impossble for me due to the price of such rare items. Fifteen years, and a badge here and there later, with a count of about 450 badges, I decided to narrow my focus to Irish badges. Actually I narrowed it down to badges from regiments from inside Ireland. I do have a few badges such as the London Irish etc. Even narrowing it down to home grown regiments I have still found it difficult to complete my collection as the rarer Irish Badges go for a premium price. I do my best to collect original period badges but again, the rarity and price of many of these badges has made this task difficult. I do NOT have a problem placing a re-strike in my collection, once an original is found the restrike is replaced. If I can afford it. For me it is more pleasurable to look at a well made restrike than to look at nothing. After 30 years of collecting and with a present count of over 700 badges, I consider myself to be fairly knowledgeable with regards to certain badges. One thing I have found in my 45 years is that most "Experts"....... aren't. When someone is infatic that a badge has to be a certain way I can almost garantee that there will always be an exception to this rule. Remember, just because a badge does not look "EXACTLY" like the badge you have, which you fully believe to be an "Original", this does not mean that "You" are the one holding the correct badge. Most people collect an item because it gives them pleasure. So long as you are happy with your collection, original or re-strike, that is all that matters. The only correct way to collect badges is in the fashion that makes you, the collector, happy. Again, I can almost gaurantee that every collection out there containes a "less than original" badge wheather the collector realizes and/or is willing to admit it or not. Enjoy your hobby.

Good luck and Good hunting!

Cheers, Michael

[Malcolm Davey]

I am what I like to call a general collector, I do not collect a certain regiment or an era but badges in general whether they are pre 1901 or E11R.
I have some of my badges mounted on the walls and displayed in no particular Precedence, just basically what I think looks nice.
On the wall also I do have a small cabinet which holds my 8 lance plates
I also have a stationary cabinet with 12 drawers which hold aprox 50 badges per drawer. with all my badges when I aquire them they get one wash with warm water and a tooth brush, I love badges with great patina and if it has some of the pink stuff even better it stays on.
I have also got a shoe box with about 45 small boxes inside which contain some of my OSD badges with collars and I keep this on top of my wardrobe.
So you might say I have an unorganised collection.

Malc

[hagwalther]

Collections - I collect Staybrite, German WWII Combat badges and WWI and WWII Iron Crosses.

Cleaning - get the crud off but never polish.

Reproductions - proper name is FAKE - the politically correct word is reproduction. I would never knowingly let one in my collection. Sellers knowingly selling fakes should be outed and shamed. If you don't want to get into a libel case (which I don't think would happen) one should use terms such as 'commercially unique' to describe a fake and 'modern trader' to describe the seller of fakes or similar. Collectors ain't daft and the word quickly gets around.

Showing - I'm investigating internet aspects of displaying collections.

Repaired badges - more than acceptable when a better item is not available due to cost or rarity. Difficult to tell if an item is period or modern repaired so assume modern.

Variations - should be included.

Regards

Chris

[dragonz18]

My main collection is British cap badges 1902-22. This is my main concentration.
I do not actively collect Yoemanry badges ,which I generally deem ,loosely ,as 'trading' items, when I get them.
I have many 'sideline' collections that include all periods though. Artillery,Engineers ,ASC, Guards, etc. Generally all items possible here!
Also many smaller 'special' groups, such as MGC,RND,RFC,Kitchener's Army,Military Horse brasses ,early trade badges & the like. All types.
I have, hopefully, a small few of 'fillers', looking for replacement(Public Works Batn,etc). I keep these,when replaced as 'references', along with some extra others ,picked up along the way.
Some are in Large glassed-in frames, others in smaller (20-30 item) frames,awaiting missing items. The rest/most are on cards in a writing beureau!
I do have some Victorian & Officer's badges also ,just because I like them !!
I also like manufacturer's variations,which may include a few 'ringers' here??
Antiques ,in general ,interest me also.
Been collecting various types of militaria(including WW1 Uniforms & equipment,etc. now all gone,unfortunately) 'on & off' since late 60's (2nd time around for badges)
Condition... I prefer origional age/patina/wear, generally.
Repairs, if well done, are OK on the rarer badges.
Collecting & military history is my major 'Vice', nowadays.
Cheers !
Steve

Today, 25th April.....ANZAC Day..... 'We will remember them'

[guest_000]

Hello gentlemen as most now know I am a passionate collector of CEF insigina
WW1 CANADIAN EXPEDITIONARY FORCE. WE had a total of 260 numbered battalions and 3 named these being INFANTRY . THEN the corps element was massive as you can expect with 79 artillery batterys comomon ,siege, trench mortars, medical units, cyclits, forestry, railway, machingun rfc on and on it was huge. I collect all collars shoulders hat badges and any variantions I can find. My library is over 2000 books plus and I research metals quantities values . Infact I can tell you in most cases when a badge was sold how many in the last year to 10 years and true trend value. I sort of live on ebay and haunt aution sites gathering this data so I know what is disappearing sort of like the stock market.
As for cleaning as an old infantry man 37 years I firmy believe unless covered in staining verdigiris a badge has done its job and for t he most part should be left with its as found patina.
You know my thoughts on fakes and fakers.
For my British comrades I have ammassed about 4 trays of British badges over here where there is little market and I like to trade for CANADIAN or GERMAN those who SUPPORTED me in the fray may contact me you know who you are

[Alan O]

Dave

A thought provoking topic. I group my badges by type and date. Due to space constraints I keep all mine in A4 wallets mounted on thin card inside plastic sleeves. I tried to put them all in date order - all Regular Inf badges as at 1908, all Inf badges changes as at 1939, all post 1950 changes and beret sizes etc but then you get the 1926-34 Inniskilling; where does that go?

Makers' variations is indeed another challenge. I do have makers' variations when they are significant such as the post war misspelling Inneskilling or large frond BW or or solid centre Suffolk but don't try and get every makers' variation. The problem I found with chasing every varaition is the danger of chasing restrikes. I have a solid centre Beds and Herts for example but this was not worn by the regiment and is a later copy.

Cleaning is only done with a wet toothbrush if really needed but otherwise leave alone. And yes I do have some polished and repaired badges for some of the rarer designs until I can find a better example.

Alan

[mad4thcef]

Originally Posted by paulbear

Hello gentlemen as most now know I am a passionate collector of CEF insigina
WW1 CANADIAN EXPEDITIONARY FORCE. WE had a total of 260 numbered battalions and 3 named these being INFANTRY . THEN the corps element was massive as you can expect with 79 artillery batterys comomon ,siege, trench mortars, medical units, cyclits, forestry, railway, machingun rfc on and on it was huge. I collect all collars shoulders hat badges and any variantions I can find. My library is over 2000 books plus and I research metals quantities values . Infact I can tell you in most cases when a badge was sold how many in the last year to 10 years and true trend value. I sort of live on ebay and haunt aution sites gathering this data so I know what is disappearing sort of like the stock market.
As for cleaning as an old infantry man 37 years I firmy believe unless covered in staining verdigiris a badge has done its job and for t he most part should be left with its as found patina.
You know my thoughts on fakes and fakers.
For my British comrades I have ammassed about 4 trays of British badges over here where there is little market and I like to trade for CANADIAN or GERMAN those who SUPPORTED me in the fray may contact me you know who you are

Well Done !

Paul
"I' am with ya"

Rob

[David Tremain]

I first started collecting badges as a teenager in the 60's. My grandfather had given me a few that he had acquired during his service in India and Burma with the RA and R.Sigs. I then joined the Military Heraldry Society (membership lapsed long ago) and various members sent me badges to help a young lad trying to develop his collection. They were very eclectic (as was my collection) and I suspect, were odds and sods they didn't want. I bought a few others, for mere shillings or pennies in those days (Oh that I had had the foresight to keep buying then!), then my interest dropped off as I got older and the whole lot were left at my parents when I immigrated to Canada. In 2001 when my dad came over to visit he brought them with him, having asked if I still wanted them. I'd forgotten what I had, and soon got really interested in them, but I realised that I needed reference books if I was to take this hobby seriously. So began a new adventure, both adding to my collection and collecting as many of the reference books as possible.

I decided at that point that I was going to focus on British Army cap badges from WW1, WW2 up to the present, as well as cloth shoulder titles. Within that I have subsets of parachute wings and Special Forces (SAS, SBS, Commando) badges, and RAF wings and brevets. I sorted my collection and sold all the American ones and traded a couple of S.African ones to a friend of mine for some more British ones. I have to say I don't like the A/A badges, but if I want the different variations up to the present I know I'll have to buy them eventually.

My cousin who was a CPO in the RN gave me all his badges. I hadn't planned on collecting Navy badges, but what the hell, I'm not going to refuse a freebie or ten. I decided to take the opportunity when a business trip to Thailand came up in 2005 to pick up as many Thai badges as possible. Almost everyone wears wings of some sort or the other! Cataloguing them is something else, as there's few references on them. I also picked up a few Korean ones in Seoul.

As to repairs and cleaning, the only repairs I've had done (by a restorer friend of mine) is to resolder the lugs back on to a couple of badges where they'd broken off. Otherwise, I don't buy broken ones. I have never cleaned any of my badges, other than to strip some black paint off a Middlesex button which had been partially painted black. I prefer to leave the patina as is. I have ironed a couple of cloth badges to get wrinkles and creases out of them.

When it comes to restrikes and fakes, I won't knowingly buy them. If we keep buying them we just create more of a market for them. I do have a few that I bought on eBay that turned out to be crap, which is why I don't like eBay, having been burned a couple of times, though not badly, although there was one acrimonious to do with a dealer in Nevada, but I did get my money back. I have bought a few repros, knowing full well that I'll never find or be able to afford the originals because they're so rare, which serve as space fillers. I tend to buy my stuff through a few dealers that I know and trust both here and in the UK when I'm over, or the odd antique shop where the badge is a nuisance and not really the dealer's interest so is willing to sell it cheaply or throw it in free with whatever else I've bought.

As with any collecting, it's knowing where to stop and knowing what your financial limits are. I'd like to buy more and would be at it all the time if I had the money, but I don't, so my spending is modest when spread out over a year, even though I do go bananas when the opportunity presents itself. Part of the fun is serendipity - not always knowing what you're going to find, and if it's a bargain, even better! Over time, we all tend to get more proficient at knowing what's good and what's not, having a good eye for quality and being able to spot the fake or restrike. The information other members provide is always useful, but I agree that we shouldn't get too hung up on variations not always being right, because they could be. You have to trust your own judgement.

[Cardiffbloke]

I think everyone knows by now that I collect only 3 Regiments. QDG is easy as in the last 50 years they haven't changed much but there are quite a number of variations on a theme like a great number of 'Staybright' badge types etc. Luckily, I think I am one of only 3 collectors who have the Recruiter's' Title... see Pic. Bays is also pretty straightforward as they pretty much stayed with what they started with in 1898.... KDG however...What a nightmare! 3 cap badge changes and all associated bits and bobs.... Also a 'smart' Cav Regt where everything is Silver and Gold.... Costs me a bloody fortune but EVERYTHING i have is real... no fakes and i can honestly say i am about 20 items short of finishing it.... then what??
As for cleaning.... well right now, the soldier in me is saying "present them as they would have been worn" but i listen to the arguments for leaving them be.... the Jury is out.....
Storage at the Mo is the same as Alan Owen but one day i will put them into an enormous frame and my wife has said i can put it up in the attic!!

[David Tremain]

I haven't got around to framing all of mine yet, as there are too many gaps, and I want to put them in order of precedence, but what is it with wives not wanting us to display them in prominent places? Mine says I can put them up in the basement (where they are stored right now). Perhaps that's another topic but maybe let's not go there!

[davec2]

Hi, I'm very new to this forum and relatively new to badge collecting, having had my fingers badly burned, originally, by the professional sellers on ebay, I then had some excellent help and advice from two people in particular, Malcolm and Keith. I was under the impression that this forum was to offer help and advice to those unsure of specific topics and indeed I have asked a couple of questions already. From reading these threads, I have picked on two, the first being repairs, I actually repair badges myself ( I am an ex metal worker ), because I believe that a repaired badge is better than a scrap badge, this opinion isn't really open to discussion because it is my own opinion and I would never tell anyone else that their opinion was wrong. The second point is more personal and it is " ard-ri's " remarks about people using auction sniper, that I object to, I can not always be at my PC when an auction finishes, nor can I enter into bidding wars. I haven't worked, through illness, since 2003, so money is a real consideration ( repairing badges helps to augment my buying capacity ) but I do use auction sniper, it is a legitimate tool and I have lost by it more than I have won. I ABSOLUTELY RESENT being called a LOWLIFE and I am surprised that a moderator has not ONLY SEEN FIT TO REPLY TO THIS THREAD BUT HE HAS ALLOWED A MEMBER TO BE SO ABUSIVE. After such a short period of time as a member of this forum, I am now thinking seriously of leaving it and going back to asking advice from the few who have helped me in the past and I might add, without abuse or ridicule. I can not express, how annoyed I am at this slur, the fact that I am so new to the forum, stops me going any further and if it is the forum's way of inciting a discussion, I do not need it. Dave.

[Jibba Jabba]

Hi Dave,

Militaria collecting is some what like working in engineering. There are always those people on the shop floor who try and wind you up, want to provoke a reaction from you or are just having a bad day and feel the need to vent some steam.

I`m still a relatively young collector but I started collecting badges when I was 6, that was a little over 20 years ago. Over this period of time Ive found just as with any hobby there are always the cranks and there also other helpful honest people such as Malcom, who like you I have come to respect.

The best advice I can give is just let any comments you find offensive wash over your head, a lot of it is to do with jealousy. Remeber at the end of the day a badge is just a chunk of metal, it isnt as important as the lives of family and friends and the things that really matter in life. Find it in yourself to develop a very thick skin and you should be able to go far in this hobby.

[davec2]

Hi Jibba Jabba, of course, everything you say is true, you can reverse our ages though, I am coming up to 63 but have only been seriously into badges for a couple of years. As for the thick skin, what can I say, I've been in the army and sadly, I've even been in prison ( a lesson well learned there ) and obviously, I've been around. I learned at a very early age to treat people as you would wish to be treated yourself and one thing I can not tolerate is people who are derogatory/obnoxious, even minor slurs get right up my nose. It is refreshing to hear your views and your message is most welcome, thanks for that but all this detracts from my idea of what the forum is about, I guess at this late stage in my life, I must learn to broaden my shoulders, again thanks, Dave.

[Peter Brydon]

JJ,

Some excellent points.

It is at the end of the day only a hobby and not a matter of life and death

P.B.