Irish Guards Shoulder Titles

[seanhath]

Can anyone help date the bottom Shoulder title in this image?



(It isn’t for sale)
Kind regards,
Sean

[seanhath]

[Phill Lockett]

Gidday Sean

Can you post the backs of the titles.

When it comes to cloth shoulder titles it can be tricky to say the least if your after WWII era CST.

cheers mate.

Phill

[seanhath]

Hello Phill,
I can’t get an image of the rear because it’s sewn to the battledress material that it has been cut away from.
Of course I could try to pick the stitching, but I don’t want to risk damaging it.

[54Bty]

If it was mine I would place it in the World War 1 collection.

Marc

[Frank Kelley]

I would think that example is the oldest of all those in the photograph.

Originally Posted by seanhath

Can anyone help date the bottom Shoulder title in this image?



(It isn’t for sale)
Kind regards,
Sean

[grenadierguardsman]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

I would think that example is the oldest of all those in the photograph.

Do you reckon its 1st World War era Frank ?
Andy

[irishhorse]

I think the square end titles were worn up to early WWII ?

[seanhath]

Thank you for your replies!
I’m very happy that this Shoulder title could be as early as WW1 / early WW2.
Can anyone give me a valuation (not selling, just interested to know).
Kind regards,
Sean

[Phill Lockett]

Hi Sean

Apologies late reply , lost track of time.

I'm glad for you that they are early and pre war titles, a very nice surprise, well done and a good eye you have.

Phill

[irish]

Great looking title. Would the 3rd title then fall within the WW2 era.

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Andy,
Yes, I think it can certainly be classed as an antique!
One of the nicest examples I have seen for a long time.
Regards Frank

Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman

Do you reckon its 1st World War era Frank ?
Andy

[John Mulcahy]

Sean

you certainly have an early example and it could be WW1. This title in use by at least 1917 and up to the mid 1940's

The only WW1 cloth shoulder titles samples that I have seen with a dependable provenance are the two at the IWM which are part of the 1917 questionnaire response. They are IWM references INS 8328 (1 BN) and INS 8023 (2 BN).

Both these titles (INS 8328 with a separate numeral "1' sewn on) appear identical to each other but have font differences compared to your sample shown here (in particular the "S' in the word "Guards")

There is, of course, no suggestion that only one supplier or lot was used during the great war.

Thus far, I have failed to find any sealing details for the white on green titles so cannot pin a date on the replacement on white on red for white on green (straight end) or the move to white on green (round end).

The Square-End (called box end back then I believe) cloth shoulder titles were in service with the Irish Guards through their tour in the Western Desert in WW2 but so were the rounded end, the inference being that box end were being used up or still worn by those issued with them before the rounded end came on charge.

John

[grenadierguardsman]

Thanks Frank, and John.
Andy

[Postwarden]

An article by Alan Jeffreys which appeared in the November 2010 issue of The Military Historical Society's Bulletin - extract attached - compiled from the records at the Imperial War Museum identifies your square end title as WWI.

Jon