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  #1  
Old 09-02-18, 01:02 PM
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Default Drake Battalion, unvoided crown, not Gaunt

I would like some thoughts on this Drake Division cap badge please. The crown is unvoided and it has no J.R.Gaunt maker's plate and no sweat hole behind the sailing ship.

I have read many threads on Drake Division badges this morning that seem to show conflicting views on what makes a good one.

I am convinced that it is genuine and will produce my evidence to this effect in due course.

Simon
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File Type: jpg Drake 002.jpg (121.0 KB, 153 views)
File Type: jpg Drake 003.jpg (122.5 KB, 120 views)
File Type: jpg Drake 010.jpg (108.9 KB, 107 views)
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  #2  
Old 09-02-18, 02:55 PM
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Simon,

I have not read the other threads and will comment purely on what I see.

I see a crisp strike, nice colours, good strong loops and a patina that I would trust.

In short I think its a genuine badge.

tregards
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  #3  
Old 09-02-18, 03:06 PM
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Thank you Simon, those are all pertinent points and yet it doesn't seem to have all the recognised features of what is considered to be a good badge.

There is a space between Auxilio and Livino and there are eight lines of longitude which are considered good points. There is no maker's plaque, no sweat hole, the crown is not voided and there is no sign of Great Britain on the globe, which is quite literally a mess of squiggles, rather like worms crawling through a bird cage.

My contention is however, that this badge was not made by Gaunt but by some other maker and is entirely genuine.

Simon
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  #4  
Old 09-02-18, 03:47 PM
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Certainly not from the Gaunt die.

I think nowadays with profliferation of re-strikes/fakes anything that doesn’t fit the accept standard results in a cry of fake or restrike. On more than one occasion this has seen genuine badges discarded only to be accepted as genuine later.

The badge looks good. Lack of a braze hole is not damming, WW1 Lambourne badges for example lacked them.

I agree the loops are a nice ‘D’ shape (not modern looking at all and no feet), badge seems well struck and has what appears to be genuine age to it.

I believe Paddy has one in his album like this also. There’s also another on eBay (item no. 273045352722) which again appears to have some considerable age to it and identical loops.

Personally I believe it could easily be a WW1 makers variation. If this was my badge it’d be in my ‘definitely maybe’ tin.

Cheers,
Luke

Last edited by Luke H; 09-02-18 at 08:03 PM. Reason: Autocorrect got me again!
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  #5  
Old 09-02-18, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke H View Post
Certainly not from the Gaunt die.

I think nowadays with profliferation of re-strikes/fakes anything that doesn’t fit the accept standard results in a cry of fake or restrike. On more than one occasion this has seen genuine badges discarded only to be accepted as genuine later.

The badge looks good. Lack of a braze hole is not damming, WW1 Lambourne badges for example lacked them.

I agree the loops are a nice ‘D’ shape (not modern looking at all and no feet), badge seems well struck and has what appears to be genuine age to it.

I believe Paddy has one in his album like this also. There’s also another on eBay (item no. 273045352722) which again appears to have some considerable age to it and identical loops.

Personally I believe it could easily be a WW1 makers variation. I this was my badge it’d be in my ‘definitely maybe’ tin.

Cheers,
Luke
Paddy does indeed have an identical badge in his album and I am hoping that he will see this thread. Here is a link to his badge.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ctureid=143518
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  #6  
Old 09-02-18, 07:57 PM
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In my opinion Gaunt did not make this badge. However I believe that this is another WW1 maker who also made this badge. I would have it my collection.

Last edited by Alan O; 20-02-20 at 12:37 PM.
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  #7  
Old 09-02-18, 03:58 PM
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Hi Simon
There was a thread a few years ago about RND badges which were most likely original but weren't Gaunt made, I'll see if I can find it.
I would not like to say either way whether yours is good or not but here are some comments. Firstly, the ship is poorly made, I would expect it to have far better detail. Secondly, there is reasonably crisp detail in the reverse, but only in the areas of the crown and scroll at the top, and the globe and scroll at the bottom. The wreath detail on the back is not nearly as crisp which raises a question mark.
There seems to be a similar one on sale here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-1st-D...gAAOSwT~9WiBXC

Cheers,
Alex
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  #8  
Old 09-02-18, 04:02 PM
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I agree with Alex, the quality of the ship is shocking. I wouldn't want it in my collection.
Andy
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  #9  
Old 09-02-18, 04:06 PM
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The patina and the sandy looking braize, reminds me of the fakes coming out of Eastern Europe.
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  #10  
Old 09-02-18, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman View Post
I agree with Alex, the quality of the ship is shocking. I wouldn't want it in my collection.
Andy
That is fair enough but I am definitely going to keep it. You will see why in due course.
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  #11  
Old 09-02-18, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman View Post
I agree with Alex, the quality of the ship is shocking. I wouldn't want it in my collection.
Andy
I wouldn’t say the quality of the ship is shocking. Not as well defined but still not bad IMO.

I can clearly see gun ports, individual planks on the hull, an anchor, rigging, a crows nest. I agree the sails don’t appear the smoothest and may lack a little finess but I’ve seen far lower quality WW1 badges that were genuine.

In fact I’d say the voiding on the badge in the opening post is superior. Nice void between the flag and mast on the foremast. Clear voiding between the flag on the main mast and the mizzen mast. Neither void is present on the Gaunt badge.

Here it is next to a Gaunt badge ship. Simon hope you don’t mind me using your picture to demonstrate.

Regards,

Luke
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File Type: jpeg 06D9D6B8-3390-44F6-ABD6-3A19F6F7B1D8.jpeg (23.0 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpeg 329E9494-F433-490E-845C-CA640EDF0440.jpeg (42.2 KB, 54 views)
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  #12  
Old 09-02-18, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Rice View Post
Hi Simon
There was a thread a few years ago about RND badges which were most likely original but weren't Gaunt made, I'll see if I can find it.
I would not like to say either way whether yours is good or not but here are some comments. Firstly, the ship is poorly made, I would expect it to have far better detail. Secondly, there is reasonably crisp detail in the reverse, but only in the areas of the crown and scroll at the top, and the globe and scroll at the bottom. The wreath detail on the back is not nearly as crisp which raises a question mark.
There seems to be a similar one on sale here: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-1st-D...gAAOSwT~9WiBXC

Cheers,
Alex

Alex,

I would say that the badge offered for sale on Ebay is identical to mine and is also genuine. I am not sure what to make of the latter part of his description, except to say that the Drake battalion were obviously not in the vanguard of the RND.

"KC. An original. The 1st Drake Battalion. RND. Cap badge in very good used condition. The Rearest of the five Battalions".

Simon

Last edited by High Wood; 09-02-18 at 06:17 PM.
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