Questionable 1 Can Para Brass Cap Badge

[PD Harrison]

I'm no expert but this may be a case of even the pros missed this.
An E Bay auction just closed,

http://www.ebay.com/itm/CANADA-WWII-...item540e549f68

The badge in question appears to be identical to the copies that have recently appeared from Europe and discussed previously on this site. Recently I picked one up thinking it was a good one, and I traded with a Canadian dealer, after it was shown to a couple of dealers including Lou Grimshaw who all felt it was good.
The dealer did sell it, but look a small loss and it was sold as suspect. I've since reserarched these and there are some indicators that this EBAY auction may not have been for an original. This listing shows all signs that it is a recent copy. Maybe I'm wrong (I kind of hope so), I was not the buyer or seller nor an expert.

Copies sell on EBay at about $25-50 but if this was a copy, A, the seller who I consider one of the best for knowledge and the buyer missed the boat. It closed at about $450. The copies have brass (not copper) cotter pins, lack detail under the canopy and in the 2 pockets beside the risers and also all copies have a nick in the canopy from the die. There may be other points I missed.

Is this actually a BIRKS badge or was it a recent copy.

[David Tremain]

Thanks Paul, and welcome to the Forum!

David

[Voltigeur]

Hi Paul, about this badge, the seller 3322cgb is Chris Brooker one of the highly respected dealer, so if he sells something you can be assured the item is genuine and research has been thouroughly done to autheticate it.

Jo

[Bill A]

Careful Jo. Chris is a long established dealer and has done considerable research on Canadian badges. Still, there are errors in his books and in the odd listing on ebay. No one is immune to making mistakes.

[silverwash]

I have pulled this example off one of my berets to enable it to be photographed on a neutral background. on looking at the problematical item I was struck by the " jumbled up " letters of PARACHUTE in the scroll. having said that , what I believe to be an original badge , is not perfect either ! differences readily discerned when compared side to side, but on the day a single one in hand without reference , judgement could be called into question. apparently dies do wear and badges can take on a softer look, although I reckon given the number of these that were produced , this would not be the case ( tool steel vs brass ). the badge in doubt looks a casting as opposed to being die struck. the edges of the standard badge , bear all the characteristics of being die stamped. must go, the Sun's come out.

[Frank Kelley]

Agreed, at a glance I prefer the back rather than the front!

Originally Posted by Bill A

Careful Jo. Chris is a long established dealer and has done considerable research on Canadian badges. Still, there are errors in his books and in the odd listing on ebay. No one is immune to making mistakes.

[cw2311]

I agree that the Birks maker does have some similar characteristics to the reproductions seen out there for sale. I wish the ebay picture also showed a side photo of the lugs. They tend to have a ‘tear drop’ look which is also similar to the repros, however, I have noticed a minor soldering detail that seems to be consistent with the originals by that maker. I would hate to pass a firm judgment without all the information.

Cheers

[PD Harrison]

I've attached two additional EBay listings for known copies of this badge.
The picture quality is not ideal, but I can't see anything that would prevent a buyer from mixing up a Birks example and these two copies. I have what I thought was one of the copies, but based on the listing in question, maybe mine is a rare BIRKS example. (I doubt mine is nothing but a copy)

Example One
http://www.ebay.com/itm/CANADIAN-PAR...item25854360be

Example Two
http://www.ebay.com/itm/0327-WWII-Ca...item58ae98a411

If anyone can highlight the difference in these badges, it might put this to bed.
Otherwise, these copies will fetch well in excess of current retail as they are excellent copies.

Thanks
Paul

[Tanker Mike]

In my experience the 6th riser on the chute always has a "cut" on the copy.

Mike

[Infanteer]

Paul, these badges (like in your links) have been discussed previously and there are several points that give them away and they are easy to pick out once you know what to look for. In my opinion the badge in the original post is indeed a reproduction and someone payed far too much. This is why it's so important to be educated in what we collect.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ight=parachute

[cw2311]

Sometimes pictures can be deceiving and a closer in hand inspection may be required. This being said, I would never take that chance from a seller who doesn’t offer returns as they too can make mistakes.

[PD Harrison]

All,
Great feedback and all valid points.
I think Steve's link and the general agreement to do the research would lead to an informed decision regarding this auction. When one looks at the magnitude of the militaria available, there will occasionally be a good copy that might slip through.
The badge could be an original by BIRKS, but based on the info provided and my limited knowledge I likely would have asked for the option to rtn the badge if it indeed was a copy.

As Ed Storey has previously stated this had become a business vice hobby for many. Not all copies are sold to deceive, but the accuracy is making collecting a challenge when one considers the investment.
Most of the copies are obvious, and to date all known copies are eventually identified largely due to the help and knowledge of the contributors to sites like this.

Thanks again,
P

[Infanteer]

Originally Posted by cw2311

Sometimes pictures can be deceiving and a closer in hand inspection may be required. This being said, I would never take that chance from a seller who doesn’t offer returns as they too can make mistakes.

This is true, photos can really alter the appearance of items depending on the angle, lighting and other factors. In this case, there are a couple of key areas that are clearly visible that allow for an accurate determination, IMO. Collecting militaria is no longer a casual pastime if you are concerned at all about not getting burned by a fake. It takes active effort to research the items we are interested in.

[cw2311]

Hey guys,

I know the ebay cap badge that kicked off this thread has created some discussion of opinions. I figured I would take a group shot of a few brass cap badges for you to kick around and give your observation as to what you like or dislike.

Enjoy

[Infanteer]

Bottom right is the same reproduction that started this thread. I can't really see enough detail to make a comment on the others.