Unique Commonwealth War Grave ?

[gurkharifles]

I've mentioned this grave before in a previous post. As it's a Private Memorial there's nothing the CWGC can do about the broken cross as long as the name of the war dead is still clearly legible. However it was looking a bit sad - so I cleared up the weeds and laid down some fresh chippings and it looks a lot better. I've asked the question as to whether this particular memorial is unique in the UK given that it contains the remains of a father and son both official war graves. I'd like to know more about how Henry Matthew Baber died ? He died aged 56 on 12 April 1915 - and he was Col Sgt of the 4th Btn Somerset Light Infantry - his son William Baber was a Private in the 24th Btn London Regt wounded in France ( Highwood ) and died of his wounds in Cardiff in Oct 1916

[grenadierguardsman]

Brilliant job well done.
Andy

[oc14]

At the time of his death, Henry Matthew Baber was no longer serving. He had been discharged from any further military service on 20th November 1914. He had previously served as number 735 in the 4th (TF) Battalion of the Somerset Light Infantry and before that had served with the 3rd Volunteer Battalion of the Somerset Light Infantry. Prior to his Volunteer service he had served aas a regular soldier for a short time (19th Hussars for 3 years and 138 days and 61st regiment of foot for 118 days).
He was awarded the following medals for his service:_
Egypt Medal (1882-1889) with clasp "Tel-El-Kebir"
Khedives Star
Volunteer Force Long Service Medal.

Sadly I can't furnish any details regarding the circumstances of his death other than to state that he died after the termination of his military service and was probably due to natural causes.

Hope that helps

Paul

[gurkharifles]

Hi Paul - to qualify as a war grave he must have either have had an injury or illness that was caused by or exacerbated by their military service. The only other explanation is that he might have died in a civilian organisation- but you would normally expect to see that organisation mentioned on the memorial. Tim

[Alan O]

You can order his death certificate for a few pounds that will give you v=cause f death. As stated his was a civilian when he died so CWGC's remit does not cover his grave.

[leigh kitchen]

Re. Henry Baber's Volunteer LSGC:

First Name:
H M
Surname:
Baber
Rank:
Colour Sergeant
Service Number:
2311
Authority Date:
01/07/1901
Service:
British Army
Primary Unit:
Somerset Light Infantry
Secondary Unit:
3rd Volunteer Battalion
Archive Reference:
WO102_41

[mike_vee]

Originally Posted by Alan O

As stated his was a civilian when he died so CWGC's remit does not cover his grave.

Criteria for Commemoration

We commemorate people who served in the Commonwealth armed forces during the First or Second World War, whose death:

 occurred during the official war period; and
 was the result of:
 wounds inflicted or accident occurring during active service;
 disease contracted or commencing while on active service; or
 disease aggravated by active service.

In practice, this means that:

 serving military personnel are commemorated irrespective of the cause or circumstances of their death; and
 military personnel who died post-discharge are commemorated if it is established that they meet the above criteria

The CWGC has a Graves Registration Form for both Father and Son , so it appears he did meet the above criteria.

.

.

[Alan O]

interesting and not sure how as the 1st/4th SLI were not in an operational theatre until 1917 as they were sent to India in 1914 and clearly this man did not leave UK with them.

[tonyb]

With reference to the original post.
Father and Son memorial.
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=45660
Tony.

[Gurkha]

Well done Tim,
Just been thro an old copy of the 24th roll of honour, the son is not listed. There is a William Herbert Barber No 6282 of Yaton, enlisted in Bristol, formerly
21504 in 3rd Btn Somerset LI. died of wounds in UK 16/10/16. So probably an error in transcribing the Roll.

1/24 attacked at High Wood Morning 15th Sept History states "Advancing in open order from the reserve position under cover of the wood, but met such heavy fire they could not get forward and dug themselves in. After further confused, bitter and punishing fighting they were relived on the 19th".
No doubt he was wounded then.

Steve

[gurkharifles]

Thanks Steve - I’d wondered why the son hadn’t joined his father’s Regt - it appeared he did. Why do you think he would have transferred to the London’s ?

[Fatherofthree]

Greetings.

Slightly off topic I suspect, as I'm not certain that this is actually a War Grave as defined by The CWGC.

Three brothers, all casualties of WW1, one of the brothers is interred at Hargicourt British Cemetery, another maybe interred in Italy and all three are commemorated on panels.

The grave in a churchyard near me commemorates all three and remarkably, the three bronze death plaques are still in place.
IMG_4035.jpg IMG_4036.jpg

I have tidied the plot up once, but must do so again.

Apologies for the upside down sideways piccie, I've tried but am unable to correct it.



Regards.

Brian

[gurkharifles]

Hi Brian - thanks for sharing the image of a very poignant memorial - Earnest is commemorated at ARRAS ( which i think means that the body is missing ) - and Sidney is commemorated at Savona in Italy - again not buried . I've never seen a memorial in a graveyard with the "death plaques" incorporated into it. As you suspected the memorial is not covered by the CWGC as it's not actually a war grave.

[Gurkha]

Hi Tim,
After the battle of Givenchy, upon being taken out of the line the 1/24 could only muster around 250, so Im guessing that he either volunteered to transfer or was transferred as reinforcements.
I have searched my various F History sites and can only find his register of effects. Looking at the medal card it does not seem his pair were claimed by family. He is also mentioned on the Plaque in St Marys Yatton. Sadly it looks like his service record is one of he burnt records.
Steve

[leigh kitchen]

The War Diaries of the battalions involved may contain entries along the lines of named officers plus x number of NCOs and y numbers of other ranks received from or sent to other units.