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#1
29-09-18, 03:40 PM
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Looking for sealing data N. Irish Brigade pipers cap badge
Does any one have sealing data for the North Irish Brigade piper's badge that they would be willing to share?
thanks in advance John 
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#2
30-09-18, 12:47 AM
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Have you considered that it may well have not been sealed as most Piper badges while officially authorised by the Army Dress Committee are not provided by the public purse (hence no NSN or pattern No.) but are regimentally acquired. Regards, Chris
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#3
30-09-18, 06:29 AM
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Chris,
I think that is highly likely that that is in fact the case as I do not see it listed in the 1963 CCN (which is the only CCN I have a copy of for the period 1958-1968). I am interested to see if anyone knows differently. What made me curious was that pipers collar badges do appear to have been sealed. As an example the R.I.F. Silver Anodized, Horizontal pattern for No 1 dress, SPN 16145 Sealed Feb. 12, 1954 (Ref. Churchill p. 283) and the vertical SPN 19196 for No 2 dress sealed Nov. 5 1963 (Colin Churchill p284.) It strikes me as an inconsistency that pipers collar badges were sealed but not apparently pipers cap badges. As far as I am aware I do not think that the North Irish Brigade O/R cap badge [pattern No. 17969, CB 8089 (approved Dec 8, 1958)] was recorded as approved for Pipe Sgts & Pipers also. Just a curiosity on my part. John
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#4
30-09-18, 06:38 AM
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I certainly never came across an A/A version of this badge and I went through plenty of doco during the Brigade era but I would not have been looking for non A/A badges. I have all the CCN's (I think) and will try and dig 'em out and check - it will be a start. Give me a few days unless anyone else can check the CCN's or other doco. Regards, Chris
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#5
30-09-18, 07:11 AM
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As I am going through the Liverpool Scottish and Liverpool badges (from 1908 onwards), I also assumed that in the absence of any Pattern Nos piper's badges were 'approved' but not produced by the public purse. Before the anodised era it is thought that pipers wore 'normal' badges but with a WM or Chrome plating done locally / regimentally.
John does your 1954 CCN SPN have a price against the RIF collar badges ? If not, it meant that they existed on paper but not yet ready for wear. I know from Chris that there were many such examples were 'listed' long before (if ever) actually produced, indented and worn.
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#6
30-09-18, 07:20 AM
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John does your 1954 CCN SPN have a price against the RIF collar badges ? If not, it meant that they existed on paper but not yet ready for wear. I know from Chris that there were many such examples were 'listed' long before (if ever) actually produced, indented and worn.[/QUOTE]
Julian That is lmost definately the case for the 1954 pattern Pipers collar badge as “Regimental Badges”, Maj. Edwards, 3rd edition,states that the WM collar badges were still in wear in 1962/63. John
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#8
30-09-18, 09:00 PM
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Gents,
a brief observation on Edwards 3rd edition, oddly I realised recently. Published in 1963 (presumably with the revisionary work being carried out 62 into 63) he rarely mentions badges as being made in anodised aluminium, referring to most as gilt or WM. In fact only a handful of regiments (cap or collar) are specifically refered to as being anodised from memory. Which is odd as this volume covers the Brigade era when we know that the OR's badges were indeed anodised aluminium in general. How accurate the references to badge materials are for this period in time, in this volume, may well be up for debate. Regards all Bess
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#10
30-09-18, 09:31 PM
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I agree that material for a book is often out of date in terms of research done a year or two before before official publication (I've suffered from that too !) Nevertheless Edwards is a very is a very useful source. But CNN (and predecessors and successors) are probably better sources coming from WO / MoD
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#11
30-09-18, 09:35 PM
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#12
30-09-18, 09:54 PM
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I have the horizontal all silver anodised two-part Royal Irish Fusiliers piper's collar badges but have never seen the vertical type.
Tim
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm" "Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!" "Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
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#13
30-09-18, 11:12 PM
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Thank you all for your comments on the piper's collar badges.
With regard to the vertical type; I know of two references. There is a single example at the R.I.F. Museum in Armagh. (image below from a recent visit I made there) The Imperial War Museum apparently holds a pair in what appears to be a pattern box. Catalogue number INS 10388. I have not viewed this item. "Facing pair of silver anodized collar badge to Royal Irish Fusilier Pipers of the North Irish Militia, later 4th Battalion The Royal Irish Rangers, being a Royal coronet surmounting the flames of a fused grenade on which the figure of an eagle, facing, with spread wings, with a laurel wreath on its breast, standing on a torse, below which a tablet on which “8”. Single lug to reverse of both with backing plate and cotter pin. Captioned “Collar Badges / R.Ir. Fus. / Pipers”. https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/30078162 The point on Edwards is noted. Chris, if your CCNs cover collar badges (my 1963 copy is cap badges only) I would appreciate if you could check whether A/A collar badges are listed to the R.I.F. or not. Still curious what the logic is (if there is any) why collar badges are sealed for pipers and not cap badges (I don't think that it is a numbers thing). John Last edited by John Mulcahy; 30-09-18 at 11:24 PM. Reason: added image
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#15
01-10-18, 06:44 AM
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CCN doco lost in attic after recent house move. Have sent you PM re: possible other info. Regards, Chris
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