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#1
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Ebay time warp - 4 CLY
The postman dropped a nice little package through the door today, a 4 CLY, big 4, collar in fine condition...a 'buy it' now at £2.50!
PeterA |
#2
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Damn it, I missed that one. Is it stamped W.S Hall, Sheffield to the rear?
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#3
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Old Smelly:- Well you have to win one now and again to compensate for the 'expensive fake' purchases.
Keith Blakeman:- My search criteria are specific to my main focus - Sharpshooters. It had been posted just 31 minutes prior to my bid. 'W & H Ld SHFD' on the rear. There are at least five variations of the 4 CLY collar. Joachim:- Images attached. PeterA |
#4
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Attached are mine, both Hall plus a single CLY collar. |
#5
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The loops were not visible on the single ebay image posted, so must be another badge. The 23rd LAC CLY collar comes in both cast and pressed form....as does the 4 CLY. Peter |
#6
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I've only ever seen dodgy cast Gaunt 4 CLY in cap badge size. |
#7
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4 CLY
Could any resident expert tell me what brass shoulder titles were worn by 4 CLY in WW2. I'm particularly interested in the unusual design illustrated in Boris Mollo's book The Sharpshooters (p 70) - a curved title 4 CLY over "SHARPSHOOTERS"
Was this actually worn? Thanks Mike |
#8
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Quote:
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#9
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Keith,
Many thanks. I've not been able to find an image of the first or third titles being worn, but at least one of the Wehrmacht images of the CLY prisoners in Normandy shows the second - 4 CLY - title being worn. Yeo.4_CLY_Normandy_PW.jpg Mike |
#10
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I should have pointed out earlier, the curved title also has a maker stamp Walker & Hall, Sheffield. This company also made the collars (supposedly also worn in the beret) with the odd shaped 4. Last edited by Keith Blakeman; 21-10-11 at 04:50 PM. |
#11
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CLY
A question from my co-author of the CLY article for Militaria:
Has anyone has clear information on the wearing of the CLY NCO's badge by 3 CLY, the 4 CLY and then the 3/4 CLY during WW II on the BD blouse or was it reserved for the blue patrols? From which rank was it worn Cpl, L/Sgt etc...? Above the stripes or on them? Any information would be gratefully received Mike Last edited by Mike Jackson; 21-10-11 at 05:01 PM. Reason: typo |
#12
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4 CLY Sharpshooters - That cap badge.
I picked up another variation of the 4 CLY cap badge on ebay last week. It was from a respected dealer who had bought it with a collection from auctioneers Wallis & Wallis.
It may go some way to explaining why we have never seen the full size cap badge with the 'stylized 4' as illustrated in the Boris Mollo book. The Sharpshooter Museum do not have an example. It had been suspected that the smaller scale 'collar' had been worn as a cap badge in photographs taken presumably in N. Africa. The badge in question (with the red dot) is quite crude in construction, a casting, and gives the typical appearance of a badge made in theatre. The white metal '4' seems to have been taken from a collar and re-brazed to the larger brass casting. The 'regular 4' cap badge for comparison in the image is a fake. There must be a reason why there is a disproportionate number of 'stylized 4' collars to cap badges. The 'collars' in cast and pressed form appear regularly, but until now never a cap badge. The 'stylized 4' collar in the image has been converted to pin fixing, with evidence where the lugs have been removed. So either a 'sweetheart' or possibly for temporary fitment to a service hat with minimal damage. PeterA |
#13
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4th CLY
As I understand it the small "collar" on the right was worn as a beret badge.
Rob |
#14
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That cap badge, I can think of an expletive to put in the middle.
The more I see and read about this badge, the more I'm convinced the 'full size' 4 in nickel and worn in the cap/beret only existed as an officers badge. Whilst the gilding metal one piece pattern 3rd CLY, along with the bi-metal XXIII and the CLY existed as large, I've yet to see 4 in that size other than the Gaunt Officers one, other than cast ones as per the OP. However although rare, the smaller W&H version with the clumsy 4 does appear fairly frequently. K&K isn't much help, the illustration 2289 may well be the bi-metal badge (collar?) shown by PeterA, bearing in mind the NIH badge shown on the same row is smaller than any of the CLY illustrated along side it. |
#15
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Hi Peter, I can think of a plausible reason why the collars appear more than the beret badge. The beret is much easier to lose than the collars on the BD. On RTU, The luckless individual would be told to get a new beret from stores, but if they were short of cap badges (as it seems with this unit) a private purchase of a sand cast version down at the souq would remedy the problem. The letter 4 on the sand cast badge also looks sand cast (as it should be). I don't think galvanising the WM from an existing collar was the practice on the evidence from that badge.
Cheers, Gaz |
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