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#121
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted |
#122
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted |
#123
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"Non-combatants who volunteered to drive ambulances during the First World War were designated 'His Majesty's New Zealand Transports' (HMNZT)." The National Museum of the Royal New Zealand Navy has a different view : "At the start of World War One the New Zealand Government chartered a number of merchant ships and converted them for troop carrying. The ships were manned by their civilian officers and ratings, the distinction given to them was a button-hole badge which declared that they were serving on New Zealand Transports." https://navymuseum.co.nz/explore/by-...ps/troopships/ .
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted |
#124
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The badges in question, with thanks and acknowledgements to DumDum.
Cheers, Tim PS: both stamped on the buttonhole fixing G M BAY Last edited by Chipper; 02-11-20 at 02:33 PM. Reason: add info |
#125
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And they had lots of bacon, cheese, salty corned beef, rum (when it was issued) and many lived well into their 90's....
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#126
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted |
#127
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As my 'missing enamel' 1914 badge was not an unknown version I gave it a good clean and "polish" (normally I just wash with soap) and will keep it as an 'oddity'.
I got hold of an Admiralty badge (for a reasonable price) , I have doubts about it's authenticity but as it is only the third example I've seen I can't really judge. It is 26mm as opposed to the standard 1914 OWS version which is 25mm. After cleaning , with soap and water only , I'm not sure if it is tarnished or if base metal (brass ?) is showing through. First photo in natural light , second photo 'one click' enhanced. I don't know who made this badge (no makers mark) or if they came (like 1915/1916 badges) in different finishes such as silver/chrome/nickel ? Bosley's has one described as "nickel plated brass". All opinions welcome and if anyone discovers any definitive information about this 'elusive' badge please let me know. Final point , if this badge was 'faked' then why are there so few examples around ? .
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted |
#128
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Hi Mike
My two ones look as if they are solid nickel but I'll discreetly test them and let you know. I would think that the slightly frosted appearance of your one is the result of being "ground dug" rather than being a casting. As you say, if they've been copied you would expect to see more of them... |
#129
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Stll trying to solve this puzzle.
Decided to compare examples of 'Admiralty' and 'HMNZ Transports' badges using ones found on-line and noticed similarities. The photos show that both badges have '10 balls' on each arch of the crowns . (see photos). What confuses me is that my 'Admiralty' badge , dumdum's enamel version and all the basic 1914 ones I've seen have '9 balls' , so why would they change the crown on these two badges ? The HMNZ Transports badges were manufactured in New Zealand by C.M. Bay , would he have simply copied the crown design of the Admiralty badge or (a complete wild shot !) could some of the 'Admiralty' badges have also been made by him ?(unofficially , so unmarked). Q 1: Were there Admiralty staff based in New Zealand to deal/liase with the merchant ships ? Q 2: If my badge is a 'fake' why does it have the standard crown (used by numerous British manufacturers) and not the '10 ball' version used by Bay's ? PS. Thanks to James for being my 'sounding board' .
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted |
#130
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Hi Mike
No, I will guarantee that your Admiralty badge is quite OK. Never thought to count the balls on the Crown (a great idea!). Bay would have been going off a standard 1914 badge I'm sure (either a drawing or a real example) and maybe just thought that the extra ball added nothing, if I've understood you correctly. I'll do some work on an online archive I use and see when they first mention the HMNZT badge. This might help us to see if the standard, blue enameled badge appeared around the same time! My two Admiralty silver-coloured badges both came from the UK. Must photograph them for you and the Forum! You'll see that I've just sent you a photo of one of the HMNZT badges if you check your email! |
#131
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Got your e-mail , thanks.
I'm now even more confused ???? Tim posted a photo (post #124) showing two of your badges , the enamel one has '9 balls' and the plain HMNZ one has '10 balls' . The photo you sent me is of a plain HMNZ (C.M. Bay) badge with '9 balls' which , to me , appears to be 100% genuine based on markings/wear etc. So , are the '9 ball' versions of both badges the genuine ones and the '10 ball' ones fakes ? Or were two different versions manufactured and where/why ? .
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted |
#132
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The first of the NZ Transport ships , Moeraki , departed on 15th August 1914 along with the Maunganui . The Maunganui and a further 9 ships departed on 16 October 1914. In total 111 journeys were made by transports , the last being on 3rd October 1918. I can't find any info about when the HMNZ Transports badge was first issued but would assume that authority from the Admiralty would be required so possibly after the official OWS badge therefore probably early 1915 ? .
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British Legion/Royal British Legion , Poppy/Remembrance/Commemorative. Poppy and British Legion Wanted |
#133
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Hi Mike
very, very interesting. Just to hopefully add to the data base, I measured both today, and while it won't be 100% accurate, it is certainly close. As expected, the 9 ball crown is smaller, but only by a small amount. It's a good question as to the plain ones - were there 2 dies? But were there enough made to justify 2 dies? Maybe one broke and they had to make another? so, anyone with a plain version - post it here! The more we see, hopefully the clearer it will get. I'll put a pic up of the maker mark as well. cheers, Tim |
#134
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1) plain
2) enamelled |
#135
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to my eyes, very different stamps there, which can't be unusual, but certainly worth looking at.
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