FSC badges of the Royal Irish (Ulster) Rifles - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

John Mulcahy · #1 21-01-10, 02:04 AM

Looking back over the current thread on the regimental design badge worn by Officers and W/Os of the 1st (Air landing Bn) The Royal Ulster Rifles jogged my memory about the badge offered by Bosleys in their July 2008 postal auction. This item (No 84) was described as a “Royal Ulster Rifles scarce white metal beret badge circa 1947-52”.

I wonder if it really is a beret badge. I am starting this new thread in the hope that it might uncover more information about this regimental pattern badge.

My own opinion is that is may be a design for wear in the FSC, possibly introduced in 1913.

I have no direct proof of this and to the best of my knowledge no sealing data has been found for this badge. The late David Linaker & I had discussed this badge at length and here is our combined speculation.

The badge below on the left is the well documented 1898 pattern FSC for the Royal Irish Rifles. This badge was replaced by a KC version shown here in the centre. This KC version was sealed in 1902. This centre image is very low resolution.

This badge is illustrated in Churchill’s book on collar badges as fig 1756. I believe he is in error in describing it as a collar badge (as he does with the 1898 pattern FSC badge, his ref 1749). Recall other than the OSD collar badges and mess dress the regiment did not start wearing collars until they joined the North Irish Brigade.

The WM badge sold by Bosleys appears to me that it might be a WM version of the 1902 KC FSC badge, it is of similar height (42mm), and I speculate that it may have been introduced in 1913 to coincide with the change of metals on the other ranks forage cap badge. I have posted the image that appeared in the other thread here for completion.

I have no proof of this however. But I have also never seen photos of this badge being worn in the caubeen in the period 47-52.

In fact further to this in WO32/12077 (the file dealing with the successful petition of the Rgt to replace the officers cord boss with a silver or silver plate version of the 1913 pattern O/R badge) which covers the period April 1946 to Sept 1949, when the regiments talks about requesting a silver plate version of the O/R badge there is no reference to an impending change to this smaller design.

I would be most interested in the opinions of members, does anyone have data opinions or references to support either view?

John

rockape560 · #2 21-01-10, 11:42 AM

hi john,

just a queery really.

i was told a few years back that the officers/wo air landing cap badge was also used on officers side caps or chip bags as we knew them.

just wondered if this was true

many thanks

philip

irishhorse · #3 21-01-10, 01:05 PM

John this is a full size silver plated officer's cap badge. Its much better quality than the OR's version, and has two long lugs. The post war badge mentioned in the archive material ?.

Alan O · #4 21-01-10, 01:38 PM

John

Yours is avery logical argument. The fact that a/a K/C and Q/C badges were made in the full sized one and that there was no Q/C version would support your conclussion.

Which Bn was supposed to be wering a beret then anyway - surley the airborne bn role had gone and they were all in caubeens anyway.

Alan

John Mulcahy · #5 22-01-10, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irishhorse

John this is a full size silver plated officer's cap badge. Its much better quality than the OR's version, and has two long lugs. The post war badge mentioned in the archive material ?.

Many thanks for showing this, I have not seen one before. Interesting lug position. Gaunt made the first specimens in 1946 as part of the regimental petition.

John

John Mulcahy · #6 22-01-10, 01:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockape560

hi john,

just a queery really.

i was told a few years back that the officers/wo air landing cap badge was also used on officers side caps or chip bags as we knew them.

just wondered if this was true

many thanks

philip

Philip

I really don't know as I have yet to see photographs of officers or W/Os of the 1st Bn wearing the FSC.

John

brainey · #7 09-02-17, 08:48 PM

In reply to your request for Info. on your photographs of the above the QVC badge ,nicknamed The Stumpie, was in fact worn as a Collar Badge by The Officers and the RSM in Kahki Service Dress on the stand up collar, and I have photographs from about 1907 showing same. They wear the same badge both sides ie. not facing pair, and in 50 years of collecting to the regiment i have never seen an example facing left.
The KC badge is almost certainly an officers pattern collar badge WW1 vintage, and what we term "not usual type" ie. not the normal triangular shape. I have in my collection versions in Brass,Bronze, W/M and Silver, and have facing pairs of some. Officers of this period wore a Boss Badge on their side caps and O/Rs just had 2 cap buttons.
The KC W/M badge is a mystery in that I bougt one some 40 years ago, prior to the restrike flood, but I have no photographic evidence (in over 1000 photos) of it ever being worn. My opinion is that these were a "trial badge" that were never taken into wear by the regiment. However as all badge collectors Know some day someone will come along with evidence to the contrary.
Regards Bobby Rainey