Just curious about this

[Duncan]

Hello All. Can any of you help me with this title. I can see by the tag that it is a "Master PATTERN", but why are there so many dates (ranging from 1972 all the way to 1987). Is this "normal" for the process to take 15 years>, or are these different dates indicative of other things?

[Bill A]

Hi Duncan, Sealed or master patterns are used as samples for contracting purposes. When a badge is designed DND has to approve the pattern. This is sealed, as this one, with the wax stamps. When a contract is tendered, the sample is loaned to the manufacturers who make examples using the "standard". The sealed or master pattern is supposed to be returned to DND, and the manufacturer who wins the contract finishes the run. There are usually several sealed patterns. This may explain the dates. The original pattern sealed in 1972, and a subsequent order in 1987?

[Duncan]

Ah yes, this certainly explains everything. Thank you Bill, I really appreciate the insight.

[54Bty]

I am not up to speed on Canadian patterns, but, with ours the Master Pattern very rarely if ever leaves the pattern room. I would suspect that your sample was checked and a change of location (storage area) made on the date stamped on the rear of the tag.

Marc

[Bill A]

Hmm. A bit more complex answer. The 1972 "master pattern" is a real interesting question, as at that time, the army was moving to the CF uniform without shoulder titles. The service dress tunic was made without shoulder straps and the intention was to minimize regimental identification, limiting it to the cap badge. With the issue of DEU uniforms in the late 80's (coincidental with the second date on the pattern), metal shoulder titles were once again introduced.
Marc may be correct about the master pattern being kept under government control, but the practice in the Canadian system has been to have many sealed patterns, which are "loaned" to the manufacturer to use as a samples and prepare bids for contracts. They were to be returned.
One big question, is the example shown in private hands?

[servicepub]

This shoulder title may have been worn on the Sher H Patrol uniform (Blues) and, as long as the uniform was approved by NDHQ, its items were eligible for supply by DND and a sealed pattern was filed. Many Militia units retained some form of fancy dress - sometimes limited to the band, a colour party or other.
As Bill stated, practice in Canada was to have several examples of patterns sealed and these were provided to contractors to guide them in the manufacture of new stock.
In 1974, while a young subaltern with the GGFG, I participated in such an exercise that 'sealed' all patterns of GGFG and CGG full dress. At the time many items of British design (i.e., peculiar to the Coldstream Guards and Grenadier Guards) had come into common use by the Canadian allied regiments and it was determined that some order had to be brought into the field.

[Duncan]

Gentlemen, thank you all for taking the time to post your comments. An interesting thing about this sealed title is that it is significantly different (smaller and more "dainty") than any other SHER-H titles that I have (including Officers AND ORs). To answer Bill's question: Yes, this sample is in "private hands" (mine). When I purchased it, neither I, nor the seller, really knew what it was. So now the BIG QUESTION. Am I even allowed to possess this piece? I sure don't want the PROVOs beating down my door and dragging me away to the Glass House. Any thoughts about this...????

[Bill A]

Hi Duncan, Well you won't be the only one dragged away by the Securitas. I don't believe it is illegal to own a sealed pattern, but the question arises as to whether the sealed patterns are on the market legally. Some companies have been known to keep the patterns after the contract is filled and then dispose of them. I can't comment on the legality of that practice.
IF the badge is obsolete, it is another question entirely.
Anyway, I am not going to tell.

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by Bill A

he practice in the Canadian system has been to have many sealed patterns, which are "loaned" to the manufacturer to use as a samples and prepare bids for contracts. They were to be returned.

We have the same system, but it is normally only the 'Working' pattern or 'Standard' pattern being loaned out for contract tenders.

Marc

[Duncan]

I suppose I could always just take the title out of the pouch and throw the rest away... problem solved! :-)

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by Duncan

I suppose I could always just take the title out of the pouch and throw the rest away... problem solved! :-)

If you do that send the bits to me, address on request.

Our patterns are normally marked obsolete and some times red lined.

Marc

[servicepub]

Standard practice in Canada was to send all sealed patterns to the Canadian War Museum when surplus to needs. When the CWM prepared for their move to new digs they were challenged by the amount of material that had to fit in the new building. To solve this they embarked on a program to scale down their collection - after all, who needs 126 examples of postwar RCAF service dress tunics?
Initially, the goods were transferred to other museums but, at the end of the program, some goods were donated to local theatre companies and a substantial amount of common/inexpensive items ended up in private hands.
Many of these sealed pattern items probably gained their freedom through this program. Based on the possible provenance there is no concern in owning this privately. However, I don't feel that the paper-work adds much value.
BTW, I own a sealed pattern Canadian Guards scarlet tunic.

[Duncan]

Hi Clive. Thank you for your input. Your reasoning is sound emough that I will be able to sleep tonight wothout fear of the Title-Police visiting me in the wee hours!. Many thanks from, not only myself, but from my good friend Morpheus!