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  #16  
Old 30-12-11, 01:18 PM
Chrisr Chrisr is offline
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Hi BC,

Thank you for your reply, and for the list of manufacturers - a much larger number of UK makers than I thought - much appreciated.

With regard to your points I think we are arguing the same case on some issues:

Your point 1. I agree. I said I don't how he determined a badge was WW1 or WW2, but I put the examples up to show that a man who I suspect was in the collecting game well before either of us were, was prepared to date certain badges as WW1 and WW2 and there are variations of them concerning the A. Irrespective, his photo of the 1903-12 Rising Sun does not have the A closer to the end of the scroll, while ours do. This I believe is a maker's variation. If there is a difference with this badge, then surely there could be differences concerning the A with other versions of the Rising Sun pre-1920's, especially given the number of makers of them

Your point 2. My comment on the Australian Instructional Corps badges was about badges that could be dated. The post says "I couldn't be sure when any of [mine] were made other than" those in points 1, 2 and 3 of my previous post. I simply listed the Australian Instructional Corps as badges I could date within a particular period.

Your point 3. I agree Tiptaft and UK made badges are WW1. I used "probably" as I was not sure about my unmarked slidered one. Who knows who made it and when? That it is slidered indicates it is a UK made badge.

Your comment as I said in my previous post, it is not an exact determinant, but I don’t think I have ever seen any A close to the end of the scroll on ww2 or post badges. The post 1948 Australian Military Forces badge in the bottom right corner of your photo has the A close to the end of the scroll, as do three of mine.

Regarding the post 1948 KC and QC Australian Military Forces badges. I know they leave out the word Commonwealth, and I know they are easy to date. Nonetheless, you included four of them in your photo as evidence of your observation, but, as mentioned above, one of them has the A close to the end of the scroll. This tends to refute the theory that badges with the A close to the end of the scroll were pre-1920's.

If you don't have provenance for the badges in the two top rows, can you be absolutely sure they are pre-1920's? You mentioned your observation of the A close to the end of the scroll is based on a feeling for them, which is supposition, and you agree it is not an exact determinent. Thus how do we know they are pre-1920's other than the A theory?

Others have said that WW1 badges have non-voided crowns. Personally I am not convinced of this, but if it is correct then we have some non-voided crowns with the A close to the end of the scroll, and some the A set further back. We have the same situation with voided crown badges.

The point of my previous two posts was the two theories of dating badges as WW1 (the A and the non-voided crown) are supposition, and be he right or wrong Cossum lists examples that refute both theories. As I said, you may well be correct. Then again, so may those who believe the non-voided crown theory. What is evident is both theories cannot be correct - both voided and non-voided crown badges have examples with the A close to the end of the scroll, and examples with the A set further back.

Personally I don't accept supposition as a means for dating a badge, and IMO to do so muddies the waters. I think solid research based on pattern records is a much firmer basis for dating badges. We don't have that yet, hence my initial advice to Wig that dating Rising Sun badges to WW1 or WW2 is largely guesswork, except of course the UK made badges.

Regards
Chris

Last edited by Chrisr; 30-12-11 at 02:02 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  #17  
Old 31-12-11, 03:31 PM
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wig wig is offline
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Hi there BC,
Thanks for taking the time to post manufacturers list.
Cheers
Wig
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  #18  
Old 01-01-12, 05:50 AM
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badgecollector badgecollector is offline
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hi wig
i have added a few badges to my album. front and backs. a few variations of what i believe are ww1 badges
bc
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...hp?albumid=871

Last edited by badgecollector; 01-01-12 at 05:57 AM.
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  #19  
Old 01-01-12, 07:58 PM
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wig wig is offline
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Hi BC,
Thanks for that mate, much appreciated.
Wow ! What an amazing collection you've got.
I'll have a closer snoop, it might help me with the few I've got.
Cheers
Wig

Last edited by wig; 01-01-12 at 08:54 PM.
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  #20  
Old 29-01-12, 06:12 AM
Lancer 17 Lancer 17 is offline
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G'day Wig

As per my previous posts, I have a number of known WW1 Rising Suns, 4 from a family member who was in 22nd Battalion, as follows

Tiptaft, double marked slider non voided.
No name slider voided
Stokes & Sons, 2 lugs (now cut off) voided
No name, brass pin back Non voided
These 4 are family.

Also
Stokes & Son Melb 2 lugs with red felt backing Voided
Sterling Silver HM B'ham 1916, nurses pin backed collar size, voided
Sterling Silver nurses pin back collar size, KG Luke Melb Voided.

So there you have it both void and non void used in WW1.

I also have 2 origonal WW2 slouch hats, one my fathers and the other belonged to my fathers neighbour. Both are in origonal condition and both have voided crowns.

The mystery deepens !!

Regards

Phil.
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