QOH NCO's Shoulder Badge

[Roy]

Hi Gents,

So I'm writing to share this new addition and also to see if I can learn a little more about this badge. I did not set out to find this example but a friend offered me a cracking deal on this beauty knowing my interest in HM silver badges, so couldn't pass it up

It is what I think is an NCO's shoulder badge to the Queen's Own Hussars. It is made in HM silver, stamped 'Firmin London' with hallmarks 'F&S' (Fattorini & Son Ltd?) and for Birmingham 1921.

I must thank Andy for sending over some page scans which have been of great help regarding the origins of these badges.

However a few questions persist:

Is this a shoulder badge as I first thought or perhaps a collar?
So is the Maker Firmin or Fattorini ?
My badge is facing right (as you look at it) whereas the other examples I have seen in the references are facing left?

Any thoughts or ideas greatly appreciated. As mentioned not a badge I'm familiar with but happy to have it nonetheless and keen to learn a little more.

Cheers, Roy.

[Mike H]

Hi Roy,

Looks like a collar badge to me.
Most likely to be Queens Royal Hussars officers collar.
QRH would mean that it was Firmin made, and modern so I cant see how the 1921 hallmark would fit in.

[Roy]

Hi Mike,

Thank you for that. Some additional info:

Size: 40mm x 23mm

Weight: 8 grams

Cheers, Roy.

[grey_green_acorn]

Here is the current description for QRH collar badges. Bright silver plate for Officers so no hallmarks?

Tim

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Roy,
I would say, from the photo, that is actually seventh cycle Birmingham marks for 1946-47, the maker is Firmin and clearly not an NCO's sleeve badge, it faces the wrong way, so a collar and obviously not QRH either.
Regards Frank

[Roy]

Hi Tim,

Thank you for that.

I'm 99% sure I'm reading the hallmarks correctly (i.e. W for 1921) but will include a high res image here for further interest.

Roy.

P.s 'w' is not so clear in this photo but is for sure correct.

[Frank Kelley]

It is seventh cycle and not sixth cycle the marks do differ.

[Roy]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

It is seventh cycle and not sixth cycle the marks do differ.

Hi Frank,

Could you elaborate a little for me on what you mean? No familiar with the term 'cycle' in this context.

Cheers, Roy.

[Mike H]

In that case I would suggest 3rd Kings Own Hussars collars then . Linaker and Dine states that "some officers were wearing the smaller horse cap and collar badges in 1912". That would fit with the 1921 hallmark.

[Frank Kelley]

Each cycle of hallmarks differ, for Birmingham, the sixth ran from 1900 to 1924 and the seventh from 1925 to 1949, the background upon which the date letter appears and of course, the letter itself, will always differ slightly, between actual cycles.

Originally Posted by Roy

Hi Frank,

Could you elaborate a little for me on what you mean? No familiar with the term 'cycle' in this context.

Cheers, Roy.

[Roy]

Thanks Frank,

Got you!

Cheers, Roy.

[Frank Kelley]

I think it would have to be!

Originally Posted by Mike H

In that case I would suggest 3rd Kings Own Hussars collars then .

[Roy]

Hi Gents,

Thanks for all that, a great help.

I can confirm the date letter IS 1946/7 - see two images attached.

So can I say with some certainty that this is:

An officers circa 1946 right-hand collar badge to the 3rd Kings Own Hussars ?

Cheers, Roy.

[Mike H]

Pretty sure that's it Roy. Mystery solved.

[Roy]

Thanks for that Mike,

And a BIG thank you to all.

Just one final question; I'm still a little confused on the to 'makers' marks.

It is clearly marked 'FIRMIN LONDON' but the hallmarks say F&S which if I'm correct I understand as Fattorini & Son Ltd.

Is Fattorini the maker and Firmin the retailer ?

Or is F&S anther mark for Firmin?

Roy.