Lancer's girdle.

[High Wood]

Can anyone please decipher the markings on this Lancer's girdle? They appear to read: L 816 1 08.

As these girdles were common to all the Lancer regiments it might not be possible to tie it down to a particular regiment but is it possible to date it?

The List of Changes paragraph 3599 of 19th May 1879 introduced a modified girdle, now officially reinforced on its inside face with leather. I am not sure if my girdle is earlier than 1875 or whether they were still issued without leather reinforcement.

[manchesters]

I would guess sa Follows:-

L = Lancers

816 = Army Product Code

1 08 = January 1908

regards

[mac mcconnell]

I don't think yours is quiet that old, and the Markings seem incomplete I think but a good guess above, here is my 1905 which came with a named picture of the guy wearing it. 17L owners army number......October....05.ie 1905. that's all I have.

Regards

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[High Wood]

Thank you gentleman. I would agree that the L represents Lancers and 1 08 represents the date. I think that 816 is more likely to be the owner's service number as I have seen similar markings on razors and cutlery. It will be very difficult to trace the original owner of my example as the specific Lancer unit is not indicated. I am also guessing that, in theory, there would have been a Lancer with the service number 816 in each of the Lancer regiments. If the regimental number sequence started in 1881 for Cavalry regiments, as it did for infantry regiments, 816 is quite an early number. There would have been very few 1881 enlistment still serving in 1908.

Mac it interesting to see your leather backed version of the girdle. I was wondering if mine has had the leather removed but I think that as the markings are on the red backing cloth it was not a leather backed girdle.

Many thanks,

Simon

[mac mcconnell]

I agree Simon difficult to know and with out a full army number almost imposable I would think. Now with all the lancers rolled into 0ne on the 2nd of may at least your warm with early Royal Lancers.


Rgs Mac

[High Wood]

Mac,

I have spent a couple of hours looking at Lancer's attestation papers on Ancestry and have a few interesting things. Firstly, it would appear that at the time you enlisted into the Corps of Lancers and after training you could select which Lancer regiment that you wanted to join. I have also found half a dozen Short Service enlistments dating around 1907 -1908 that had relatively low numbers:

L/353 Albert Ernest Harkness. Enlisted September 1907
L/520 William Ward. Enlisted 19th September 1907
L/698 George Allen. Enlisted 24th October 1907
L/872 William Whitaker. Enlisted 4th January 1905 Clerical error?
L/960 Frank Thomas. Enlisted 13th February 1908
L/1061 Alfred George Mareth. Enlisted April 1908.

So given these figures L/816 should have enlisted around 1907 which ties in with the girdle being issued in January 1908.

[mac mcconnell]

Nice one Simon good work the field narrows

Rgs Mac

[High Wood]

Some more research showing the Lancer Regiments selected by this small batch of Corps of Lancers enlistments.

L/810 Reginald F Cleverley. 12th Lancers.
L/811 not found
L/812 Frank R Rowlands. 5th Lancers.
L/813 George Dorrington. 5th Lancers
L/814 Edgar Cooper. 12th Lancers
L/815 Henry Ryall. 12th Lancers
L/816 Alexander Wise. 21st Lancers
L/817 Joseph Coomer. 9th Lancers
L/818 not found.
L/819 Thomas Cyril Dickens. 12th Lancers. Enlisted 7th January 1908.
L/820 Joseph G Hick. 12th Lancers

All the soldiers listed with the exception of Alexander Wise arrived in France on the 15th August 1914. L/817 Joseph Coomer died of wounds on 12th October 1914.

It would seem that my Lancer's Girdle was issued to L/816 Pte Alexander Wise who opted for the 21st Lancers. Unknowingly a very wise move as they were the only regular British Cavalry unit not to serve on the Western Front during the Great War. They saw action on the North West Frontier in 1915/16.

Thank you to everyone who has helped to point me in the right direction.

[mac mcconnell]

Some of my Lancer stuff has markings like my 5th Czapka good to see you got a name
I also think your find the 21st had a service Sqn serving on the western front but as you said not as a regiment

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by mac mcconnell

Some of my Lancer stuff has markings like my 5th Czapka good to see you got a name
I also think your find the 21st had a service Sqn serving on the western front but as you said not as a regiment

Mac,

you are right as the 21st Lancers had a single squadron made up of reservists serving in France in 1916–17 attached to XIV Corps.

Do you want me to have a shot at identifying the original owner of your Czapka? There is no charge for this service.

Simon

[High Wood]

Originally Posted by mac mcconnell

Some of my Lancer stuff has markings like my 5th Czapka

I am not sure if Czapkas were taken to France and Flanders in 1914. I would imagine that were left at the Regimental Depot and that Cavalrymen wore peaked caps.

Having said that, the soldier whose service number is on your Czapka was Arthur Carter. I am not sure if his Csapka was returned to his family after the war or whether it was sold off by the Regiment in later years, either way, it has a story. Albert Carter came from Gracedieu, Co Waterford.

CARTER, A. Private. L/5341. 5th (Royal Irish) Lancers
Date of Death:24/05/1915 Grave Reference: III. D. 17.
Cemetery:YPRES TOWN CEMETERY EXTENSION.

No family details given.

[mac mcconnell]

Thanks for the info very kind of you to do that for me poor soul like so many. Their is a good picture of a bunch of 16th Lancers in mix of headgear including Czapkas. i will try and dig it out.

With my Girdle i was lccky to get some info on Trooper Fredrick Nye he made it through the war.

Rgs Mac

[High Wood]

Mac,

let his Czapka serve as a reminder of his bravery and his sacrifice. We are only temporary custodians of these artefacts and I am sure that you will look after it for future generations. I am also sure that he would appreciate us raising a glass to his memory.

Simon.

[mac mcconnell]

Simon thanks again, amazing what comes out of some of these threads this Czapka sat in the Hungerford arcade for years i spotted the uniform on Bargin hunt when the camera looked around the room, glad i went and got it and i will raise a glass on the 24/05 and mention him on the regimental web site

Rgs Mac