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  #1  
Old 12-03-19, 01:42 PM
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Default 17th Lancers or Successor Unit's White Metal Motto.

A motto that was given to me 20 years ago.
The friend who gave it to me had bought
it in Sweden and thought that it was very old.
I condemed it as "fake" at first glance, but I'd better do a belt and braces job and ask the forum for opinions in the event it's a known variation used on headgear or other clothing or equipment at some time.
I'm still going with "fake" pending other info.
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  #2  
Old 12-03-19, 02:04 PM
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Question Motto . . !

I am no expert on mottoes, by my take on this one is it is cast and it has silver coloured loops E-W which could be silver, does it test silver?

Also it never winked at me

Rob
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  #3  
Old 12-03-19, 02:17 PM
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Never thought of it being silver, the metal does have a crisp, bright appearance. There's a small green patch on the back possibly indicating that it's failed a nitric acid test. No mark left when rubbed on paper, I'm not geared up for acid or ice testing - could try bleach I suppose?
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Old 13-03-19, 04:02 AM
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G'day Leigh.

Im not real happy about this one, Im suss as its cast and not die struck. It appears to be from an early die with "ears" on either side of the skull and with lugs it would appear to be an officers Motto, but I doubt it.

I have a shoe box full of Mottoes and not one is die cast. I do have an arm Motto / Chadd that is die cast and Im not happy with this one either. There are a number of these Chadds for sale on various dealers lists and they all have the same rear shaping and I think that they are all repros.

Hope that this helps.

Regards Phil.
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Old 13-03-19, 05:52 AM
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Hello, thanks, no surprise it's a wrong 'un, but I didn't know the info. about the possible dating of the die that would've been used on the original from which it's copied. I couldn't see it being an officer's badge as it's too crude.
It's back to my "collection" of the bad and the iffy.
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Old 13-03-19, 06:41 AM
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Hi Leigh

When I say an officers badge, thats because of the lugs rather than a slider. Yes very rough and definitely not an officers badge.

Re the "ears" these are little protrusions on the side of the skull. The earliest C1896 Mottoes had ears and lugs and the first slidered Mottoes had ears. After that the sides of the skull doesn't have the ears, however the ears continued to be used on officers Mottos which would also have lugs rather than a slider.

The ears have made a reappearance on the AA Mottoes used by 17th/21st Lancers and QRL.

I hope that this helps.

Regards Phil.
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  #7  
Old 13-03-19, 06:51 AM
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Ah right - I thought you meant there had been an officer's eared version that this had been based on as an OR's fake.
I'd heard of the eared versions of the motto but have never worked out the difference between eared and non-eared when looks at my few mottoes.

Last edited by leigh kitchen; 13-03-19 at 06:57 AM.
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  #8  
Old 13-03-19, 11:24 AM
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Copy...
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  #9  
Old 13-03-19, 12:19 PM
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It's always a pity when a friend or relative spends their money on something like this thinking that they're giving you something that you'll really like.
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Old 13-03-19, 01:37 PM
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Default Motto

Not wanting to put fuel on the fire , but a lot of these cast jobs were locally made out in India I have had one from a very good source a former CO . Griff and I also discovered that many of the PRI mottos were copies of Firmin or Gaunt so it could have been worn another minefield well and truly open.?

Mac
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  #11  
Old 13-03-19, 08:44 PM
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Ta - It's going to be a case of somebody showing an exact match with provenance one day, if it's a known local made or PRI job then.
Won't be a locally made badge coming from Northern Sweden I suppose.........
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Old 13-03-19, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
Ta - It's going to be a case of somebody showing an exact match with provenance one day, if it's a known local made or PRI job then.
Won't be a locally made badge coming from Northern Sweden I suppose.........
I had a City of Norwich volunteers badge from Australia, badges get all over the place . . !
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  #13  
Old 15-03-19, 08:09 AM
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Get yourself a good old example, as worn by Haig's lads!

Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
Ah right - I thought you meant there had been an officer's eared version that this had been based on as an OR's fake.
I'd heard of the eared versions of the motto but have never worked out the difference between eared and non-eared when looks at my few mottoes.
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  #14  
Old 15-03-19, 08:23 AM
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Nice badges, I have this lugged one, picked up 15 years ago.
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  #15  
Old 15-03-19, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh kitchen View Post
Nice badges, I have this lugged one, picked up 15 years ago.
Nice ... Smith & Wright Ltd
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