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#1
13-06-09, 01:45 PM
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Scully of Montreal
I was sorting through some recent acquisitions and came across an officers' pattern 23mm gilt tunic button of the Army Pay Department, post 1902. The frosted (or matt) gilt is excellent but what was unusual was the maker's backmark - Scully, Montreal. Given the date, can we presume that the officer was serving in Canada at the time, presumably a Paymaster, with a British unit or, perhaps, attached to a Canadian unit ? Observations welcomed. GD
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#2
13-06-09, 01:52 PM
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Scully is the major player uniform maker in turn of the century Canada. I'd say a Canadian Button, not just a made in Canada button. Did the APD use the Country in the title? CAPD or APD of C. I'm intrigued.
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#3
13-06-09, 02:36 PM
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It is named the Royal Canadian Army Pay Corps
RCAPC http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/can...orps/index.htm From 1924+
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#4
13-06-09, 04:42 PM
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Is it a lion & crown type.(pre1907) with Army Pay Department around the center ring? (no Royal) If it is then it is definitly Canadian.
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#5
13-06-09, 05:22 PM
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Scully of Montreal
The button is as per Ripley 512 - Army Pay Department, 1902-1920. The only suggestion relating to Canada is the maker's mark - W. Scully Montreal. Do we presume, therefore, that the Canadian Army Pay Corps adopted an identical button to the British Army ? If that is the case, I wonder how many more units did the same ? I hope there is a barrow-load of contributions out there ! Interesting ! GD
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#6
13-06-09, 05:35 PM
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Scully of Montreal
Bwetdude - This button pre-dates the RCAPC. GD
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#7
14-06-09, 12:33 AM
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Oh...
I tought post 1902 meant after... English is my 2nd language after all.
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#8
14-06-09, 05:38 AM
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GD, The button is shown in Smylie's book of Canadian buttons and is indeed identical to the British "Army Pay Department" and was in use untill 1907. Thereafter was a radical change incorporating a crown over a beaver on a scroll with C.A.P.C. on it. Further changes were in 1924 and in 1952 of course the crown was changed. The corps ceased to be in 1967. Regards, David J.
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#9
14-06-09, 05:52 AM
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GD, Further to my last post and as an answer to the second part of your original post, I believe one would be hard pressed to spot any difference between the Winnipeg Grenadiers button and the Grenadier Guards button. Similarly of course, The R.A. and R.C.A. have like buttons today. Regards , DJ.
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#10
14-06-09, 11:44 AM
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Scully of Montreal
DavidJ - Thank you for your posts. GD
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#11
14-06-09, 11:47 AM
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Scully of Montreal
So, am I right in thinking that the button in question is Canadian - 1902-1907 ? By the way, it is available for sale or exchange should anyone be interested. GD
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#12
14-06-09, 01:25 PM
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scully of montreal
gd, the scully website is a mine of info, diagrams and sketches of original artwork too of badges,titles,collars and buttons http://www.williamscully.ca/ regards john.
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#13
14-06-09, 01:30 PM
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Here's a more direct links to the pages.Militia and 1stWW badges.Click on each pages to have full details.
Jo http://www.williamscully.ca/gallery2...tal_badge_art/ http://www.williamscully.ca/gallery2...ionary_Forces/
__________________
"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese.
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#14
14-06-09, 01:48 PM
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Scully of Montreal
Thank you, one and all. for your posts. GD
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#15
17-06-09, 10:30 PM
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There were a number of Canadian Regiments that adopted (with permission) thier sister Regiment's buttons, Some with a slight difference like the HLI's beaver replaceing the sphinx, but those that have identical buttons (not counting Corps) are Battleford Lt. Inf/Duke of Cornwall's Lt inf......Canadian Fusiliers/ Royal Fusiliers.....Pr. of Wales Rangers/ Prince of Wales Dragoons or 3rd Dragoon Gds.....Oxford Rifles/ Cameronans......The Scots Fusiliers of Canada/ Royal Scots fusiliers......Irish Fusiliers of Canada/ Royal Irish Fusiliers......Kings own Rifles of canada/The Kings Royal Rifle Corps......The Black Watch/ Black Watch.... Saskatoon Lt Inf/KoYLI.....Seaforth/Seaforth......Lanark & Renfrew Scottish/ Black Watch......The Irish Regiment of Canada I believe have the Royal Ulster button & of course thr Rifle Regiments mostly have the bugle or horn type. There may be more with just a little difference in them The Princess of wales own has ths the three feathers of the Prince of Wales with ich dien or whatever. According to CG brooker prior to WW1 Gaunt had offices in Montreal & anything ordered from there had Montreal stamped on it but in 1923 Britain passed a law saying that anything made in a Country had to be stamped as such whether for export or not. Ray
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