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  #16  
Old 12-06-15, 10:05 AM
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Cribyn Cribyn is offline
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Hello Al

Eventually found the other posts which confirm the view that the POW feathers button is the 15th London.

Some very interesting information on London Regiment buttons in general.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...egiment+button

Regards
Roger
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  #17  
Old 12-06-15, 12:39 PM
4966Ian 4966Ian is offline
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Hi there,

Just in case it helps, I have attached clearer pictures of buttons Nos. 4 (Possible Royal Engineers - Mufti/Mess) and Nos. 6. - Unknown Gilt mounted design. I think it is "KCC" but it could be "HCC" - or maybe something else altogether.

Thanks for all your help so far, it is much appreciated.

Ian
Attached Images
File Type: jpg RER Button.jpg (67.5 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg KCC mounted button.jpg (71.4 KB, 28 views)
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  #18  
Old 12-06-15, 03:02 PM
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Hi Chaps

Al -- 15th Londons - sounds like your button might have been a OSD button. The Staffs backmarks still bother me a bit though. I thought they might have been in that area for training before going overseas and could have sourced buttons locally. Unfortunately, they don't appear to have been.

Ian - the 2nd one above. If it's "HCC" what springs to mind is Hyderabad Contingent Cavalry but I can't find any record of them wearing such a button. I think it's probably a mufti button or possibly a livery button. It's certainly a crest at the top (note the torse the lion is standing on), perhaps the script relates to the family concerned? Unusual for a livery button to have a mounted design though, other than Royal livery

David

Last edited by davidwyke; 12-06-15 at 06:56 PM.
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  #19  
Old 14-06-15, 01:16 PM
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The lion above the HCC reminds me a lot of the crest of the Honourable East India Company. Not sure whether that chimes with the possible Hyderabad connection.
I agree that the other one looks like Corps of Royal Engineers.
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  #20  
Old 14-06-15, 02:31 PM
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Hi Toby

That was my initial thought but the HEIC lion is slightly different, from memory it is holding a crown rather than a scroll. Certainly an unusual button whatever it is.

David

Just checked some of my buttons to make sure - HEIC lion is definitely holding a crown and the torse is not usually included.

Last edited by davidwyke; 14-06-15 at 03:30 PM. Reason: additional info
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  #21  
Old 15-06-15, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidwyke View Post
Hi Toby

That was my initial thought but the HEIC lion is slightly different, from memory it is holding a crown rather than a scroll. Certainly an unusual button whatever it is.

David

Just checked some of my buttons to make sure - HEIC lion is definitely holding a crown and the torse is not usually included.
Yes I did think it was only similar. All-in-all it is such an expensive looking mounted button that I think it must be for a private livery rather than military.
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  #22  
Old 15-06-15, 01:19 PM
4966Ian 4966Ian is offline
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Hi Chaps,

Many thanks for the ongoing interest in these buttons. David thanks for the pointer on the HEIC. I did some digging and I think the button belongs to the East India College – Haileybury. (Subsequently to become the Hailey College Imperial Services College).

I think the script letters “HCC” stand for “Haileybury Cadet College”. (though it could be (Haileybury College Council” - maybe?).

I found the following book on-line:
History of the ancient Town and Borough of Hertford. Illustrated with Engravings by Lewis Turnor (published 1830)

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...button&f=false

In Appendix I – Page 445, it states:

This College stands in the hamlet of Hailey, which lies in the Southern part of the parish of Great Amwell, and was founded in the year 1805, by the Honorable the East India Company, for the education of young persons designed for the civil service of India. .. .

"Towards the close of the year 1806, His Majesty was pleased to issue his royal licence and authority for a grant of arms, with supporters, to the college, which passed the sign manual on the 4th. of December. By the preamble to this grant, the college is formally recognized. On the 21st. of March, 1807, the College of Arms, in obedience to the royal mandate, granted and exemplified to the college the following arms, that is
to say, the Arms of the United Company of Merchants of England, trading to the East Indies, viz.—Argent, a Cross Gules, On a shield in the dexter quarter, the Arms of France and England quarterly, within a Compartment adorned with an Imperial Crown; On a chief of Augmentation, Azure, an Olive Wreath between two open Books, Proper, bound and clasped, Or. For the crest: On a Wreath, Argent and Gules, a Lion rampant guardant, on his head an Eastern Crown, Or, holding between the Fore Paws 3. Scroll with a Seal pendent therefrom, Proper: and for supporters, the following; On either side a Lion guardant, on the head an Eastern Crown, Or, with the motto, Auspicio Regis et Senatus Anglioe
".

(please see attached scan)


I also found the following article on the website listed below:

http://www.encyclopedia-titanica.org...two-flags.html

which in talking about the Cunard insignia, mentions:

"The crest of the East India Company's cadet college at Haileybury was the
East India Company lion, but with crown on head and holding in its paws "a
scroll with the seal pendant therefrom," the distinction being slight enough
to show derivation from the Honourable East India Company's crest, and yet
show a sufficient and appropriate difference---exactly as in the Cunard's
device
".


So I think I have identified that the button came from Haileybury College - circa 1806-1856. However, whether it was for the Haileybury Cadet College or Haileybury College Council and who wore the button and when - remains another question. But the link to the East India Company is definitely there.

Cheers

Ian
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File Type: jpg Haileybury Colege.jpg (22.8 KB, 1 views)
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  #23  
Old 15-06-15, 02:44 PM
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Hi Ian

Well done, I think you have definitely solved it there! I would be inclined to think it's Cadet College.

Perhaps it was worn by cadets or instructors/tutors or perhaps they had liveried staff, hard to say.

The "when" is easier; gilt, closed back, coatee size - almost certainly c. 1830 - mid 1850's.

David
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  #24  
Old 30-06-15, 05:33 PM
4966Ian 4966Ian is offline
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Well chaps,

Had a bit of luck, Dixon Pickup managed to id button 3 as belonging to the Royal Eastbourne Golf Club. So not the Royal Engineers as we first thought. Now I know, I can actually see the script letters "REGC".

Below is my button and the logo of the Royal Eastbourne Golf Club from their website, which shows they are the same, except for the Crowns. Apparently this button came in both large and small sizes.

Regards

Ian
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File Type: jpg REGC.jpg (9.4 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg Unknown RE button01.jpg (23.7 KB, 4 views)
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  #25  
Old 30-06-15, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4966Ian View Post
Well chaps,

Had a bit of luck, Dixon Pickup managed to id button 3 as belonging to the Royal Eastbourne Golf Club. So not the Royal Engineers as we first thought. Now I know, I can actually see the script letters "REGC".

Below is my button and the logo of the Royal Eastbourne Golf Club from their website, which shows they are the same, except for the Crowns. Apparently this button came in both large and small sizes.

Regards

Ian
Thank you.
Another one from my 'unsolved tray' solved.
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  #26  
Old 26-06-17, 08:22 PM
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Here's a bit of info found in the Queen's Westminster & Civil Service Rifles retired members association newsletter from 1975, hope it's of some use,
Wilf.
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  #27  
Old 26-06-17, 09:17 PM
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Hello Wilf

Just the job! Thanks for sharing this valuable information.

Roger
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  #28  
Old 27-06-17, 06:05 AM
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No problem Roger, glad to help,
Wilf
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