Long Scroll HLI Bonnet badge

[Alan O]

These badges seem to command a premium price. Can anyone confirm which (if any one) Bn wore them or a particular date of wear. I have seen several suggesting that they were not that uncommon. They tend to be made of a thin grade metal than the standard ones. This suggests either a war-time subcontractor or a badge not bought by the WD but by another organisation with less demanding requirements. This could be NAAFI, VTC, TF (very unlikely as the TF bns had the SAfrica scrolls) or some one else.

Any thoughts on whether WW1 or 2?

Alan

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Alan Owen

These badges seem to command a premium price. Can anyone confirm which (if any one) Bn wore them or a particular date of wear. I have seen several suggesting that they were not that uncommon. They tend to be made of a thin grade metal than the standard ones. This suggests either a war-time subcontractor or a badge not bought by the WD but by another organisation with less demanding requirements. This could be NAAFI, VTC, TF (very unlikely as the TF bns had the SAfrica scrolls) or some one else.

Any thoughts on whether WW1 or 2?

Alan

I'd agree with the different war time subcontractor statement Alan as well as the observation of them being thinner. From the age of the one in mine and my uncles collection as well as ones I've seen about I'd say more likely first war than second.

Luke

[Alan O]

Luke,

All the ones I have seen have the same slight die flaw on the ASSAYE scroll top edge. I was wondering whether the die was originally a long TF 'South Africa' one which has been recut with the extended ASSAYE? The re-use of an old die would go together with the lower spec materials of a war-time sub contractor.

Alan

[cbuehler]

A long scroll variant badge to the HLI. This particular badge came back with a CEF veteran which indicates they must have in use during the ww1 era. I have noticed that in every genuine example of this badge I have ever seen there is a die flaw in the large end of the horn. Has anyone seen otherwise?

CB

[Alan O]

I have only seen this type - they all have the same mark and a slight 'messiness' above the centre of the scroll. This is shown in K&K Vol 1. He did not show the badge in Vol 2 thus implying that it was a pre 1920 badge. I would be surprised if it was worn by the Regular Bns as the QVC ones were also short scrolls.

The variation in scroll design could have been the result of a different wartime manufacturer (possibly using old dies modified from the long scroll TF ones) or another reason but I have been unable to confirm the reason for this variation. The TF bns wore the blank scroll or SAfrica scroll versions until 1917 so it is unlikely to be made for them before that date.

These are made from a thin gauge metal compared to the standard badge which does suggest that they were not made by any of the established badge makers.

Alan

[Jeff Mc William]

I have also seen an all brass variation of the long scroll badge. Significant, or just a fake !?? Jeff

[Alan O]

Jeff,

If it was die struck then I would be suspicious but a cast bazaar badge would be more promising.

Alan

[Jeff Mc William]

Hi Alan. No it was die struck I'm afraid, so thats not good news is it ?? Hmmm, never mind it was not mine anyway but thanks for the info' ! Regards Jeff

[Alan O]

There was a School UOTC who wore the HLI badge. The long scroll could have belonged to them but I suspect that one of the 1915 raised Service Bns badges is a better candidate. These badges seem to date from WW1 and show a similarity in manufacture to some of the Scottish TF badges.

Possibly the first HLI Service bn badges were bought from the same maker who had used reworked TF dies. The other option is that it was produced later on in the war for the WD by a sub-contractor or a firm who did not possess the correct dies or sealed patterns.

Only a real HLI Bn specialist or someone with a large amount of Service Bn photographs will be able to say for sure.

Alan

[Snipsa]

Hi all,

Bought this one quite a while ago for a real bargain. Unfortunately only have the obverse photo with me at present, the badge is at home.

From this angle does it look like the real long scroll badge, or is there signs of it being a fake?


Thanks!

[Alan O]

It appears to be a cast brass copy. Genuine ones were die-struck and in nickel.

[Snipsa]

Thanks Alan, I thought it looked a bit off.

Luckily I only paid about R15, postage included (it was part of a lot), so in all it was under 1 pound, so can't moan about it

[Alan O]

There has never been a satisfactory explanation as to why a long scroll version was made. The Victorian crown version had a short scroll and the sealed patterns for the king's crown was also short scroll.

The long scroll does seem to date back to WW1 but whether this was a maker's unofficial variation or something else no one is sure.

I would hang on to yours as it could be a locally made cast badge but it would be difficult to prove which decade it was made in if you take my meaning!

[Snipsa]

Thanks Alan, Will hold on to it then

[Phil2M]

Hi all,

Can anybody advise me, please?

Is the badge below, with a long Assaye scroll, a regular battalion badge, as I thought, or was it worn by a TF battalion?

Thanks in advance,

Phil