RMP SIB LOZENGE

[ORISKANY]

Thank you, very informative.

MW

[Snowdrop 68]

Hi,

There is also a light blue with black writing version of this lozenge worn by some RAFP SIB.

Regards

Bill

[Praepositus]

Originally Posted by Snowdrop 68

Hi,

There is also a light blue with black writing version of this lozenge worn by some RAFP SIB.

Regards

Bill

But sadly Bill, PM(RAF) still insists that all RAF Police wear the Black MP on Red ground TRF - Air Force Blue would look so much better.

Regards,

[Praepositus]

Belsen.jpg

As to SIB WWII dress, I attach a photo of four SIB members having given evidence at the Belsen War Crimes Trial at Luneburg in Oct 1945. Pictured is (left to right) Sgt C Seamans who is not wearing any cap badge; Sgt E Dinsdale who is wearing a GVIR CMP badge with the slider sticking out through his beret; Sgt L Higgs who is wearing a cap badge that I have failed to identify; and WO2 J Liddle wearing a CMP badge. None are wearing white webbing and it does not look as if they are wearing CMP shoulder titles either, with WO2 Liddle wearing just the 21st Army Group Formation Flash and interestingly a QMSI/RQMS rank badge. The official photo describes the NCOs and WO as members of the Special Investigation Section (sic), and my research has revealed that they took evidence from numerous Belsen inmates and those that had also witnessed atrocities at Auschwitz and elsewhere, evidence that lead to the conviction and execution of Hauptsturmfuhrer Josef Kramer (Commandant) and the female guard Irma Grese and 9 other camp staff for crimes committed at Belsen and in some cases at Auschwitz and other extermination camps.

[Snowdrop 68]

Originally Posted by Praepositus

But sadly Bill, PM(RAF) still insists that all RAF Police wear the Black MP on Red ground TRF - Air Force Blue would look so much better.

Regards,

Yes, we still wear the red and black TRF but some of the SIB
wear the blue SIB patch too, bit naughty I know

Bill

[Praepositus]

Originally Posted by Snowdrop 68

Yes, we still wear the red and black TRF but some of the SIB
wear the blue SIB patch too, bit naughty I know

Bill

Bill,

You miss my point - the RAF SIB should wear the RAF sky-blue SIB lozenge - it reflects their qualification, employment, branch and Service - but they should not wear the red MP appointment patch (it is not a TRF) with black on red as that is the Army's and sthey hould wear a black on a sky-blue ground, as they do for the SIB lozenge, instead. Both the previous PM(A) and I tried to convince the last PM(RAF) and even had two RAF Sky Blue MP patches made up - but sadly to no avail and Gp Capt John Whitmell RAF would not budge.

If the single services do not maintain their single-service identity then where will we be: RN - Gold on Navy Blue, Army - Black on Red - RAF Black on Sky Blue.

I still have 5 years to serve so I will continue to press PM(RAF) to switch!

Regards,

[Snowdrop 68]

Sorry Boss, crossed wires with that one

It would be good if each service had their own colours on the MP flash to distinguish them at a glance. The amount of times I've been mistaken for an RMP is high (sorry.....and not good lol.)

You'll have to keep badgering the new PM (RAF) when he comes in.

Regards, Bill

[54Bty]

Both the MP badge and the SIB badge in Black on Red are registered as TRFs. Unable to find my note for the Tri-Service wear of the MP badge in Black on Red, but here is the SIB note.

ADC 322nd MEETING 9 Jul 2005
APPROVED
Decision 4056
b. SIB TRF. The Committee ratified the OOC approval for this AGC TRF, which would be included in the new edition of the TRF poster and on the AEL.


Marc

[Praepositus]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

Both the MP badge and the SIB badge in Black on Red are registered as TRFs. Unable to find my note for the Tri-Service wear of the MP badge in Black on Red, but here is the SIB note.

ADC 322nd MEETING 9 Jul 2005
APPROVED
Decision 4056
b. SIB TRF. The Committee ratified the OOC approval for this AGC TRF, which would be included in the new edition of the TRF poster and on the AEL.


Marc

Marc

Thanks - and as ever - your thread is spot on and helpful. It does still grip me that the MP and SIB badges are defined as TRFs, but they are not: the MP 'flash' is an appointment; and the SIB lozenge an employment badge. My current battle is getting the SIB lozenge authorised for wear on the MTP velcro patch. Even the august ADC can get things wrong.


Regards

Jeremy

[54Bty]

Jeremy,

We all know what they are , but as the ADC (no matter who makes it up) have half a mind of their own and half of their civilian advisor it is not much use pursuing the matter. When there were so many Unit Flashes being worn they decreed that they were all to be removed, then issued the decree of once registered with them as a Regiment (including those that did not want to wear one) or Formation badge then they could be worn, not at public expense though. Better things to spend the money on such as FAD and the re-introduction of Barrack Dress, yes, I know that in some units it never went out of use.

*

Just been re-reading the paper on what badges can be worn on the MTP 'blanking plates', and if you regard the SIB badge as a TRF then it can be worn on the right sleeve instead of the MP badge.

*
On another point what is or was the official word on the black on green (subdued) SIB badge that I know was being (is being) worn? It was seen in use in Germany, but I have failed to procure one, as everyone I wrote to denied all knowledge of it.

Marc

[ORISKANY]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

Jeremy,

We all know what they are , but as the ADC (no matter who makes it up) have half a mind of their own and half of their civilian advisor it is not much use pursuing the matter. When there were so many Unit Flashes being worn they decreed that they were all to be removed, then issued the decree of once registered with them as a Regiment (including those that did not want to wear one) or Formation badge then they could be worn, not at public expense though. Better things to spend the money on such as FAD and the re-introduction of Barrack Dress, yes, I know that in some units it never went out of use.

*

Just been re-reading the paper on what badges can be worn on the MTP 'blanking plates', and if you regard the SIB badge as a TRF then it can be worn on the right sleeve instead of the MP badge.

*
On another point what is or was the official word on the black on green (subdued) SIB badge that I know was being (is being) worn? It was seen in use in Germany, but I have failed to procure one, as everyone I wrote to denied all knowledge of it.

Marc

Is this the image you are looking for?

[Praepositus]

I have just confirmed that only the black on red lozenge has been authorized for wear. Drab versions (both black on green; black on desert/sandy brown; and black on MTP) have been made, but PM(A) (both the last incumbenet and the present one) has not authorized these for wear and has not made a case to do so to either the Corps or Army Dress Committees.

That will not of course either stop manufactureres advertising these versions for sale nor NCOs wearing the unauthorised drab version badges on operations- it was ever thus!