Help with Arm Badge Identification

[Snowdrop 68]

I was asked today by a work colleague if I could identify the arm badge on his great grandfather's uniform sleeve.

He served in the Royal West Surrey Regiment 1916 - 1919. I can identify the marksman badge but not the other two worn above it. One looks like a star and the top one a fusilier / LI grenade.

He said his GGF talked of being trained as a grenadier but the name was changed to bomber??

Can anyone help with the identification of these badges please.

Thanks, Bill

[leigh kitchen]

First time I've seen that arrangement with the star rather than just the grenade over crossed rifles, which was Rifle Grenadier.

Perhaps a TF soldier entitled to star over rifles badge and simply put the grenade above when qualified.
Presumably he became a "Bomber".

Await input from the more knowledgeable usual suspects.

[fairlie63]

Hello Bill,

Yes, the original term was 'grenadier' but changed to 'bomber' in 1915/1916.

In Australia the oxidised copper grenade was approved for and issued to infantry bombers in 1916 but it was worn on the upper right arm as normal.

I don't know enough from the British aspect to say whether that your GGF badge is for a bomber.

Keith

I see Leigh has beaten me to it, I didn't know rifle grenadiers used a grenade over crossed rifles/

[Toby Purcell]

Star above crossed rifles was the prize badge for best shot in his company. It’s quite unusual but not unprecedented to see it represented using gilding metal rather than worsted badges. He was obviously a young man who took his skill at arms seriously.

[leigh kitchen]

Aha, the first of the usual suspects.
And (I'm guessing) upon becoming a Rifle Grenadier simply added the grenade above the star.
I've only ever seen one or two images showing grenade over rifles, this is the first time I've seen grenade / star / rifles.

[grumpy]

I do not buy into the idea of a "rifle grenadier" badge ....... certainly never authorised centrally ..... I take the matter as a modern extrapolation based on the occasional photograph of a soldier wearing the grenade badge on the wrong arm, thus juxtaposing it with crossed rifles.

Never say never, and I will happy to be educated.

[manchesters]

I have had a photo of a Sgt wearing the GM crossed rifles and a GM grenade over his chevrons on his right arm but not seen it on lower left before.

regards

[leigh kitchen]

The second and third expected suspects appear - the "Rifle Grenadier" badge has been discussed on forum before.
Reference was made on a web site (GWF?) by a knowledgeable member of this and other forums to the grenade / rifles being an authorised badge.
But perhaps an unofficial badge then?
If not Rifle Grenadier then what would it be likely to be?

[leigh kitchen]

Originally Posted by Snowdrop 68

I was asked today by a work colleague if I could identify the arm badge on his great grandfather's uniform sleeve.

He served in the Royal West Surrey Regiment 1916 - 1919. I can identify the marksman badge but not the other two worn above it. One looks like a star and the top one a fusilier / LI grenade.

He said his GGF talked of being trained as a grenadier but the name was changed to bomber??

Can anyone help with the identification of these badges please.

Thanks, Bill

An excerpt from post no. 21 on the linked ARRSE thread:

"PS In 1916 it came to the knowledge of the Gren Gds that mere infantry Bns had the audacity and were referring to their Bombers as Grenadiers. This was stopped at army level, they were thereafter referred to as 'Bombers'"

[Snowdrop 68]

Thanks Leigh,

I'm not on the GWF yet, great info though.

Bill

[leigh kitchen]

You should be able to view the thread including images without joining GWF,

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/...rossed-rifles/

Same with the ARRSE thread - the man in the photo you posted in post no.1 appears in a similar (but not the same) photo there too.

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/th...thread.273036/

[grumpy]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

You should be able to view the thread including images without joining GWF,

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/...rossed-rifles/

Same with the ARRSE thread - the man in the photo you posted in post no.1 appears in a similar (but not the same) photo there too.

https://www.arrse.co.uk/community/th...thread.273036/

I am mystified. The GWF thread only has 3 entries, in the 2nd GS refers to an unspecified ACI.

Anyway I have emailed him: we coauthored the MHS Lummis Prize 5 part series on regimental numbers so stay in touch.

[leigh kitchen]

Originally Posted by grumpy

I am mystified. The GWF thread only has 3 entries, in the 2nd GS refers to an unspecified ACI.

Anyway I have emailed him: we coauthored the MHS Lummis Prize 5 part series on regimental numbers so stay in touch.

My mistake - I should've referred to the post on the ARRSE thread, not the GWF one (I've corrected the mistake now).