Blackened Northumberland Fusiliers

[mooke07]

Hi all,

Somewhat well worn path here I think.

We have a blackened Northumberland Fusiliers badge with slider to rear - all GM underneath so as per (K&K 593) and so one presumes pre-1937 before the change to BM (K&K 1972) - but why blackened - is it an early pattern badge blackened for home guard use or something else. The blackening looks like paint is on both the front and rear of the badge.

Thoughts appreciated, cheers Dean.

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by mooke07

Hi all,

Somewhat well worn path here I think.

We have a blackened Northumberland Fusiliers badge with slider to rear - all GM underneath so as per (K&K 593) and so one presumes pre-1937 before the change to BM (K&K 1972) - but why blackened - is it an early pattern badge blackened for home guard use or something else. The blackening looks like paint is on both the front and rear of the badge.

Thoughts appreciated, cheers Dean.

If genuine it would be 1st Volunteer , N.F. which were a 'rifles' battalion, continuing to wear rifle grey, even beyond 1908. The first pattern was lugged for the slouch hat and slidered for the peaked forage cap. Continued to be worn up until they adopted scarlet c1910/11.
1909 Rifle pattern - 4th Bn, NF.jpg Sgt 1st V.B.,N.F. with pre-1909 Rifle grey tunic.jpg

[JimD]

The slate grey uniforms are typical of the early period for the Volunteers, 1860"s.

Cheers
Jim

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by JimD

The slate grey uniforms are typical of the early period for the Volunteers, 1860"s.

Cheers
Jim

Sadly you must not be a uniform man as you'd aware these were worn continuously from 1860 to 1881, when the bulk of the Volunteer movement changed over to scarlet. However many Volunteer units retained the tradition of wearing either the rifle grey or dark green up until 1914, the 1st V.B., N.F. and 4th Bn, N.F.(T.F.) being one of those units.

Ray Westlake published two excellent books on the Volunteers & Territorials, which clearly show the change over.

[Graham Stewart]

1st VB,NF (Large).jpg 1st VB,NF - FSC badge.jpg

Attched a photo of the 1st V.B.,N.F., taken Scarbrough Summer 1903, where the Northumberland Volunteer Brigade were camped. Wearing the slouch hat with blackened badge with scarlet backing. He's also added a sprig of heather for the occassion.

The blackened brass badge for the Field Service Cap.

[JimD]

Graham

That is not correct for all the Volunteers, it may be a genaralised statement but not totally correct all the same.

Cheers
Jim

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by JimD

Graham

That is not correct for all the Volunteers, it may be a genaralised statement but not totally correct all the same.

Cheers
Jim

Probably 99.9% correct - the great change came in 1881, when those within the Rifle Volunteer movement became 'affiliated' to County Regiments - when scarlet was slowly introduced among the Volunteers. Many units as stated kept their rifle grey or rifle green - two V.B's. in Durham continued to wear rifle green as did Leeds Rifles, Robin Hood Rifles etc. The London Scottish, Liverpool Scottish, V.B.,N.F. and others continued with rifle grey.

Therefore it was not just contained to the 1860's, where it and rifle green predominated the Rifle movement.

The attached photo of the rifle grey uniform I showed earlier was introduced in 1909 for wear by the 4th Bn, Northumberland Fusiliers(TF), which forms part of my NF collection.

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/25...and-fusiliers/

[mooke07]

Thanks Jim and Graham - pleased with ID on badge and certainly fits with where it came from locally, enjoyed reading the background, cheers Dean.

[Rockape]

Hi Dean,

Some more information from Denis Wood's book on the 5th Fusiliers and its badges.

The badge Graham has shown was worn from 1895-1902 by the 1st VB. The one you have shown is similar to the badge worn from 1903-1908 worn on the slouch hat and khaki cap. The slider may suggest 1906-1908. Then again, if it looks dodgy, some chemical analysis on the paint would determine the era the paint was manufactured.

Cheers,

Gaz

[Peter Brydon]

Just to correct one minor error,the Liverpool Scottish wore tunics of " drab" ( see the Volunteer Infantry by Westlake page 21 ).

Drab is like khaki with a slight greenish tinge.

P.B.

[mooke07]

Thanks Gaz - Dennis Wood book is on my want list - when I was at Bromley Fair last trip home I saw a book to Badges of the Warwickshire Regiment and wished. I had picked that up. You can never have too many reference books.

Cheers Dean

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by Rockape

Hi Dean,

Some more information from Denis Wood's book on the 5th Fusiliers and its badges.

The badge Graham has shown was worn from 1895-1902 by the 1st VB. The one you have shown is similar to the badge worn from 1903-1908 worn on the slouch hat and khaki cap. The slider may suggest 1906-1908. Then again, if it looks dodgy, some chemical analysis on the paint would determine the era the paint was manufactured.

Cheers,

Gaz

Correct - what I was trying to demonstrate is the difference in the badges and to which head-dress they were attached.

The pattern shown by Dean was originally lugged for the grey and drab 'slouch' hat, which was worn by 1st V.B.,N.F., and later you'll find them slidered for the 'new' peaked grey forage cap & khaki SD cap.

The badge I illustrated was for the 'Field Service Cap', (which is also lugged), as worn by the Sgt in my other attachment.

One pattern of head-dress that was never worn by the 1st V.B.,N.F., was of course the 'Broderick', for which the badge(unblackened) illustrated by Dean was originally designed for and again lugged not slidered. The lugged examples are extremely rare and luckily I have both for the Broderick & slouch hat.

The blackening is produced through a process, which I believe is called "parkerised" - whereby the paint material is baked on to the badge during a heat process. This of course covers everything within the badge construction and leaves a distinctive purple sheen on the reverse side.

It's not unknown for the unscrupulous to actually paint a bog standard NF cap badge black to pass it off as a genuine 'blackened' one, but the finish is totally different, without the baking process.

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

Just to correct one minor error,the Liverpool Scottish wore tunics of " drab" ( see the Volunteer Infantry by Westlake page 21 ).

Drab is like khaki with a slight greenish tinge.

P.B.

ColourSergeantKingsLiverpoolRegiment.jpg
Sorry about that, but I was unsure as to what to call the colour exactly - but if I'm right it was worn in that colour constantly. Found this lovely illustration of a Colour Sgt on "Soldiers of the Queen" - a superb site for uniform buffs.

Would I be right in saying the colour of the London Scottish uniform is "Flodden" grey??

[Peter Brydon]

Graham,
You are right there was no change in the colour of the Liverpool Scottish tunics but if course they were not formed until 1900.

Here is a picture of another colour sgt. of the Liverpool Scottish a former member of the HLI.

As is sometimes the case the colour of officers and other ranks tunics appears to differ slightly ( possibly due to the quality of the cloth ). The L.S. officers tunics were more like khaki,the other ranks tended to have the greenish tinge.

Didnt the London Scottish wear Hodden Grey ?

P.B.

[Graham Stewart]

Originally Posted by 8thfoot

Graham,
You are right there was no change in the colour of the Liverpool Scottish tunics but if course they were not formed until 1900.

Didnt the London Scottish wear Hodden Grey ?

P.B.

Interesting as I had thought the L.S. were a tad older than 1900 - Did they not form a Company within one of the Volunteer units from the Liverpool area? Newcastle Rifle Volunteers had a 'Highland' Company within it's organisation, but it never survived the later changes.

Pleased you've remembered 'Hodden' Grey - guess I've got a touch of altzimers coming on. A bit like the mother-in-law, bless her, she insists she's going shopping in 'Bismarck' and not 'Primark'.