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  #1  
Old 17-06-22, 04:16 AM
nbroadarrowz nbroadarrowz is offline
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Default Motor Mechanics badge

Hi to all,
AFO 3616 of 1943 https://www.navy.gov.au/sites/defaul.../3521-3650.pdf
describes badges worn by Motor Mechanics as a propeller with star above and star below.
My question is which one of these badges is a pattern 255A badge? (the two blade propeller badge depicted is NOT an air mechanics badge).
Thanks
Barry
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  #2  
Old 17-06-22, 06:54 AM
tuckerf tuckerf is offline
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https://www.commsmuseum.co.uk/dykes/...-20century.htm
Motor Mechanic 1923-1948
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  #3  
Old 17-06-22, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuckerf View Post
From same link :

Three blade propeller : star above star below : Motor Mechanic 1943 -1948.

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  #4  
Old 17-06-22, 07:06 AM
nbroadarrowz nbroadarrowz is offline
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Thanks, I did consult this chart.
Under both categories (3 blade and 2 blade) motor mechanics are listed.
16/ Motor mechanic 1943-1948
2/ Motor mechanic 1923-1948

Which of these badges is a pattern 255A
Barry
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  #5  
Old 17-06-22, 09:48 AM
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A bit more confusion ?????

From "Appendix to the Navy List June 1942"

Quote:
Motor Mechanics [two bladed propeller]:
Motor Mechanic [star above, star below]
https://www.naval-history.net/WW2aaR...nks-Badges.htm

The three bladed propeller is shown for :

Quote:
Mechanician [all with propeller with crown above, star below]:
A footnote states :

Quote:
This badge is made and issued in small size only for wear by Mechanics 1st class : Mechanics 2nd class will wear the stoker petty officer's badge with the addition of a star below the propeller.
and

Quote:
Stoker: [three bladed propeller]

Chief Stoker [crown above]

Stoker Petty Officer [crown above]

Leading Stoker [star above]

Stoker, 1st Class [star above]

Stoker, 2nd Class [Propeller only]

There is no mention of a three blade propeller with star above and star below.


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  #6  
Old 18-06-22, 09:34 AM
nbroadarrowz nbroadarrowz is offline
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Does anyone know if the RNVR badges listed here in AFO654 of 1944 are 2 or 3 blade propellers?
Thanks
Barry
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  #7  
Old 18-06-22, 12:16 PM
Buttonman Buttonman is online now
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From Badges and Insignia of the British Armed Forces.

"In 1923 the RNVR acquired one non-substantive badge of its own - a two-bladed propeller, with a crown and star above and a star below, worn by chief motor mechanics, and with the stars but without the crown by motor mechanics. This two-bladed propeller must not be confused with the longer two-bladed airscrew worn by some ratings of the Fleet Air Arm. This RNVR badge died out during the Second World War."

The RNVR cuff letters listed in your AFO 654 were introduced in 1924.

David.
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  #8  
Old 18-06-22, 12:29 PM
nbroadarrowz nbroadarrowz is offline
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Thanks for your input David.
Do you have any AFOs that relate to the 1923 introduction or the month in 1923
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  #9  
Old 18-06-22, 01:00 PM
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Sorry but I don't have any AFO references for these badges.

David.
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  #10  
Old 25-06-22, 04:56 AM
nbroadarrowz nbroadarrowz is offline
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This official extract mentions the badges as being worn by Mechanicians not Mechanics.
My question to ponder - did the RN have Mechanicians and the RNR and RNVR have Mechanics?

Barry

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
A bit more confusion ?????

From "Appendix to the Navy List June 1942"



https://www.naval-history.net/WW2aaR...nks-Badges.htm

The three bladed propeller is shown for :



A footnote states :



and




There is no mention of a three blade propeller with star above and star below.


.
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  #11  
Old 25-06-22, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nbroadarrowz View Post
This official extract mentions the badges as being worn by Mechanicians not Mechanics.
My question to ponder - did the RN have Mechanicians and the RNR and RNVR have Mechanics?

Barry
Hi Barry , I have no real knowledge on this , only what I have found via google.

My "interpretation" is that "Mechanicians" was a title/grade within the Engineer/Stoker Branch.

Quote:
Engineer Branch

The Engineer Branch was divided into Artificers and Stokers. The stokers started out doing manual labor in the coal bunkers and stokeholds and could advance to supervisory positions. Engine Room Artificers went directly to training upon entering the Navy and advanced to petty officer level upon completion. They took precedence over stoker ratings and took charge of watches and major maintenance and repair jobs. ERAs wore no distinguishing badges, as described under Class I Uniform. Mechanicians had a level of skill comparable to ERAs but had come up through the stoker rates.
These grades/ranks wore the three bladed propeller badges.

https://www.uniform-reference.net/in..._1.html#class1

On another site I found a 1914 photo titled "Farewell Dinner Party , Mechanicians" showing the badges being worn.

http://www.ww1photos.org/photo/u299-...oke-june-1914/

Regarding the RN/RNR/RNVR , the same site has a photo of an 'RNVR London' crew and one of them appears to be also wearing the same three propeller badge (not clear but part can be seen in edited photo below).

http://www.ww1photos.org/wp-content/...R-London-2.jpg

From I.W.M
Quote:
Motor Mechanic Branch

The Royal Naval Motor Boat Reserve was formed in 1914 and disbanded at the end of the First World War. In 1922 a Motor Mechanic branch of the Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve was formed, adopting different badges.
The WW1 Chief Motor Mechanic (RNMBR) badge was a "four bladed-propeller with the letters: 'CMM'." but by WW2 the Chief Motor Mechanic (RNVR) badge was a two bladed propeller (crown + star above and star below).

So, while an RNVR Motor Mechanic would wear the two propeller badge is it possible that if they served in the RN Engineer Branch they could have become a Mechanician and wore the four bladed propeller badge ?

If I am completely off target please let me know as it is the only way I'll learn anything !

.
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  #12  
Old 25-06-22, 01:51 PM
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I like puzzles !

Found some more info that doesn't really help with the badges but does give details about the WW2 Motor Mechanic Branch :

1941
Quote:
On the institution of the Motor Mechanic Branch 6th March 1941 , ratings specially entered for the charge and maintenance of certain diesel driven craft were designated as Motor Mechanic (D).

(Refs. A.F.O. 973/41 and A.F.O. 3357/41)
Other designations :
Motor Mechanic (FM) - Fairmile.
Motor Mechanic (GC) - Miscellaneous (General craft ?).
Motor Mechanic (L) - Minesweeping craft.
Motor Mechanic (MTB) - Motor Torpedo Boat , Motor Anti-Submarine Boat.

The (D) category of Motor Mechanics lapsed on 2nd July 1942 , when all Motor Mechanics - other than Motor Mechanic (L) - were reclassified to indicate the type of engine for which they were trained or qualified by experience to operate and maintain (Ref. A.F.O. 3090/42).

The site has links to the 1942 designations :- (A) , (B) , (C) and (DHP) which show the different types of engines.

Scroll down to :
BRANCHES AND SUB-BRANCHES INSTITUTED DURING PERIOD 1941 to 1942

https://www.rnranksratings.com/

So , is it possible that the RNVR Motor Mechanic Branch was superseded/replaced by the new Branch and the double bladed propeller badges were introduced for RN personell ?

Also , would the new Motor Mechanic Branch be mainly shore/shipyard based ?

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  #13  
Old 25-06-22, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_vee View Post
Also , would the new Motor Mechanic Branch be mainly shore/shipyard based ?
Found an illustration on the IWM site titled :

WRNS Boat Crew, Home Waters 1943; WRNS Motor Mechanic, Home Waters 1943; Nursing Sister, QARNNS Reserve, 1942

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/1269

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  #14  
Old 26-06-22, 05:24 AM
nbroadarrowz nbroadarrowz is offline
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Thanks for all this material and links it has given me a lot of material to research.
Barry
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  #15  
Old 26-06-22, 03:06 PM
royston royston is offline
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Reference the query on Mechanicians. A Mechanician was a mechanic who was sufficiently qualified, by exam results etc, to be placed on a Mechanicians course. This was rather like an adult apprenticeship, two years in my case. Originally, many moons ago 1WW, two mechanicians equalled one Artificer, but later there was a direct comparison one for one. Some old Artificer's still argue two for one!

Today as i see it. since the Artificer scheme, as such, does not exist then the Engineering Technician is the eqivalent of the old Mechanician. They start out as a Mechanic and are then selected by exam results for faster promotion. I may be wrong on this since I lost touch with things when I left the RN in 1993 and as a contractor for RN training (Engineering) in 2008.

The three blade prop, two stars, looks like a Leading Stoker 1948-55 / Leading Engineering Mechanic 1955 - 79
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