Why More Money Than Knowledge Hurts

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

Mr Wright,

On your original badges do the lugs have feet on them?

Thank you.

I will take some pictures of the feet over the weekend - but yes they do - they do seem to be brazed as close to the badge surface - however, they all seem to have the same style of brazing - I will also take some closeups of the silver Australasian and the Gilt side cap badge as well. I will post these on Monday morning.

Rgds, David

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

Mr Wright,

On your original badges do the lugs have feet on them?

Thank you.

Theres a couple of pictures in my album of the fronts. Here are some close-ups of the lugs at the rear. One is taken of the the back of what I believe to be the genuine badge - the reverse badge detail is very crisp: the other is of the back of "what I believe" to be a fake - the lug "feet" look very similar - but "newer" - hard to tell whether it was a poor striking - no detail - or the feet style has been copied as well. I have had a good look at all of the others and the feet style prevails. i only have the one of "what I believe" to be a fake - so I can't do any other comparisons. If you want the "full" sizsed scan of the backs of the others - email me at david.d.wright@airbus.com and I will send them to you as a zip file - they are about half a meg each.

Rgds, David

[Jibba Jabba]

Hi David,

The reason why I ask is because my colonial badge has no feet. Its the only example I have ever dared take a gamble and buy.

[wright241]

Have enclosed a close up of the silver ones feet - this is very much the same style used on the other ones - none of the ones I have looked at have the non-feet fittings - I do have some other odds and ends (2nd KEH etc) which I will take a closer look at - when I find them...

[dragonz18]

David,
would it be possible to have a front & back pic of the Gilt one from Bosleys please.
I have been informed , by long-time collectors here in NZ, that this particular set of badges has been re-produced/copied for many years now. Long b4 the 80's anyway.( Possibly as far back as the 30's even? )
For badges ,from the period of these.... 1901-9( & most other lugged pre WW1 Cap & Collar badges, as well ), I would be expecting to see the typical lug-base fixing style of.....neat & well formed, large braze cover(completely hiding the base) so the very small (or nill) feet would not be obvious.
This is only my opinion. But is based on the observations of 40 odd years of badge collecting, now.
Cheers !
Steve

[wright241]

Originally Posted by dragonz18

David,
would it be possible to have a front & back pic of the Gilt one from Bosleys please.
I have been informed , by long-time collectors here in NZ, that this particular set of badges has been re-produced/copied for many years now. Long b4 the 80's anyway.( Possibly as far back as the 30's even? )
For badges ,from the period of these.... 1901-9( & most other lugged pre WW1 Cap & Collar badges, as well ), I would be expecting to see the typical lug-base fixing style of.....neat & well formed, large braze cover(completely hiding the base) so the very small (or nill) feet would not be obvious.
This is only my opinion. But is based on the observations of 40 odd years of badge collecting, now.
Cheers !
Steve

This is starting to sound a little ominous as I thought that at that time the purchase was relatively "safe".... I'll do some pics tonight of the gilt one for you - and myself...

Rgds, David

[wright241]

Originally Posted by dragonz18

David,
would it be possible to have a front & back pic of the Gilt one from Bosleys please.
I have been informed , by long-time collectors here in NZ, that this particular set of badges has been re-produced/copied for many years now. Long b4 the 80's anyway.( Possibly as far back as the 30's even? )
For badges ,from the period of these.... 1901-9( & most other lugged pre WW1 Cap & Collar badges, as well ), I would be expecting to see the typical lug-base fixing style of.....neat & well formed, large braze cover(completely hiding the base) so the very small (or nill) feet would not be obvious.
This is only my opinion. But is based on the observations of 40 odd years of badge collecting, now.
Cheers !
Steve

I can't get any really good close-ups of the lugs from the camera - but as you mentioned with yours, the bottom of the lugs appear to be different. I am wondering whether I should send the set to (say) Bosleys for authentification (I don't even know whether anyone offers this service the way you can get stamps authenticated - I collect these as well - now theres a business opportunity for someone......)? Any thoughts on this??

All the best, David

[Jibba Jabba]

I`m not saying my badge is original, I dont know. It isnt gilt either its bronze finish. There is also some detail missing that the reproductions have. I havent seen thats style of lug before on reproduction badges of any type and as these units were small you would expect them to have produced only a small number of badges for each Squadron. Even if it is a genuine badge its not going to be worth a lot because of the large number of reproductions.

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

I`m not saying my badge is original, I dont know. It isnt gilt either its bronze finish. There is also some detail missing that the reproductions have. I havent seen thats style of lug before on reproduction badges of any type and as these units were small you would expect them to have produced only a small number of badges for each Squadron. Even if it is a genuine badge its not going to be worth a lot because of the large number of reproductions.

I assume that the only thing we can do is to get access to the ones mentioned in a previous email (Chelsea?) and get permission to take some pictures. I am not even sure this will work though. I used to visit the various regimental museums in NI during the 70's - especially the Rifles one in Waring street - and the curator (a retd major I seem to recall) admitted to me that they had "suspects" - but from his point of view - i.e. as a display item, this was "acceptable". He showed me a box of fusilier furcaps/glengarrys and some of the WWI volunteers badges - mostly fakes. I had previously shown him a sword belonging to a Colonal Haggard of the 86th Foot (Later RIR) and he wanted me to swap it for some of these badges... I still have the sword.

Rgds, David

[dragonz18]

David,
thats more like it. No problems there. Lovely die-cast Officer's gilt badge.Nice detail ,all round. Bet it cost you a bit from Bosleys.
Funny how different pics show things differently. The full pic of the back makes it look fairly 'rough', but the close-up shows it to be nice & smoothly finished.
JJ,
your one looks to be a 'crisp' back strike, but the join looks a little 'messy'?
Still,that's not meant to be taken as a sign of a fake.Just a case of hurried work or maybe repaired joints.
Could we see some fuller pics of the badge?
These are just my personal observations,but I will try to get some detailed pics of some origional badges together, but do'nt expect it to happen over-night.
I do not collect Yeomanry badges, myself, but have long-time collector friends ,that do ,& they have origionals of these particular items.
Cheers!
Steve

[wright241]

Originally Posted by dragonz18

David,
thats more like it. No problems there. Lovely die-cast Officer's gilt badge.Nice detail ,all round. Bet it cost you a bit from Bosleys.
Funny how different pics show things differently. The full pic of the back makes it look fairly 'rough', but the close-up shows it to be nice & smoothly finished.
JJ,
your one looks to be a 'crisp' back strike, but the join looks a little 'messy'?
Still,that's not meant to be taken as a sign of a fake.Just a case of hurried work or maybe repaired joints.
Could we see some fuller pics of the badge?
These are just my personal observations,but I will try to get some detailed pics of some origional badges together, but do'nt expect it to happen over-night.
I do not collect Yeomanry badges, myself, but have long-time collector friends ,that do ,& they have origionals of these particular items.
Cheers!
Steve

Steve,
The 97Kb is a BABF forum restriction. I have the original pictures which are 600Kb each. I can split each one into 4 pieces which might come across a little better. If you want to send me a private message with an email address I could send you a zipped file of the front and back on Monday morning. I am only here at work until around 4'ish (Hamburg time) so you have around 4 hours to decide? Otherwise, I'll post 8 pictures Monday.

All the best, David

Considering its rarity, the Bosley price was very reasonable - they also had a very tatty one on
recently - hardly any gilt left though. I was just extremely lucky in seeing it just after it had been
put on the web page. But later, I missed the Lancers crossed flags........

[Jibba Jabba]

your one looks to be a 'crisp' back strike, but the join looks a little 'messy'?

I would disagree. Its a clean join and the green lumps you can see are dirt I dont clean my badges like Bosleys. Anything else is dislike metal corrosion which I would expect on a badge 100 years old. Besides isnt that the officers badge not the OR? Wouldnt you expect greater quality for officers?

If you want my opinion I think the only person in the world who knows what is correct is the person who had a relative in this unit and retained the cap badge. That person is rarer than an original badge.

[wright241]

Originally Posted by Jibba Jabba

I would disagree. Its a clean join and the green lumps you can see are dirt I dont clean my badges like Bosleys. Anything else is dislike metal corrosion which I would expect on a badge 100 years old. Besides isnt that the officers badge not the OR? Wouldnt you expect greater quality for officers?

If you want my opinion I think the only person in the world who knows what is correct is the person who had a relative in this unit and retained the cap badge. That person is rarer than an original badge.

Thanks. I'm going to assume that it is ok for now.

Rgds, David

[dragonz18]

Guys,
would it be possible to know which exact badges,of the 'set', are being actually pictured here?

JJ,
from your pic,it looks like the solder has run to the edge of the scroll,which is why I called it 'messy'. Though for the period involved I would still 'mostly' expect a small, but tidy, 'build up' around the base.

A general comment on the examples on Ebay listed previously.They differ greatly from the examples shown in both K&K and in Gaylor. These 'likely' being more correct. The Ebay ones are from different ,though similar,dies/moulds?
The Kangaroo's jaw-line gives a more open mouth ,the line of the top of hind legs is different, as from each other also, the body seems over-furred & especially the tip of the tail passes through a slightly different part of the scroll curl.More central on the Ebay ones?
There cannot have been too many different manufacturers ,for such small units ?
Once again, just my own observations here.
Cheers !
Steve

[wright241]

Originally Posted by dragonz18

Guys,
would it be possible to know which exact badges,of the 'set', are being actually pictured here?

JJ,
from your pic,it looks like the solder has run to the edge of the scroll,which is why I called it 'messy'. Though for the period involved I would still 'mostly' expect a small, but tidy, 'build up' around the base.

A general comment on the examples on Ebay listed previously.They differ greatly from the examples shown in both K&K and in Gaylor. These 'likely' being more correct. The Ebay ones are from different ,though similar,dies/moulds?
The Kangaroo's jaw-line gives a more open mouth ,the line of the top of hind legs is different, as from each other also, the body seems over-furred & especially the tip of the tail passes through a slightly different part of the scroll curl.More central on the Ebay ones?
There cannot have been too many different manufacturers ,for such small units ?
Once again, just my own observations here.
Cheers !
Steve

Steve, Have sent you 2 emails - one with the sidecap gilt pics attached
the other one mentions that I will send you a full set of the others I have.

Thanks, David