KRRC (Pagri?) Badge

[1stTankie]

Hi Ry

In response to your request for something KRRC/RB I attach a KRRC badge which I have had for many years but know nothing about it (other than it cost me £6 when purchased)

It seems very similar to the better known Crossbelt plate but the slider (outsize) seems to suggest something else.

i would be grateful for your views please.

Best wishes

Gordon

[Rob Miller]

Hi Gordon

There is something very similar on Ebay except it says it has 3 "threded" studs on the back.

330601792710

Rob.

[Charlie585]

Hi Gordon,

The Crossbelt plate that you mention is on my KRRC "Eventual" list being the exotic item that it is.

As for your badge, thank you for showing it but I'm afraid it has me stumped. My first thought was that it was a possible conversion. That said I can't make out any traces of what would have been its original fixings.

The one that Rob has linked to is being sold as a repro and has three screw posts.

If I recall correctly, Wilf has an original one of these so hopefully he will pick up this thread and be able to give an opinion.

Do you remember where you picked the badge up Gordon?

Regards

Ry

[orasot]

Just noticed this lads, I have added pics of mine which has 4 screw posts, not sure what yours is Gordon but it doesn't seem to have the same rear definition, hope this may help a bit for comparison anyway, all the best,
Wilf.

[Charlie585]

Cheers Wilf,

Nice badge

Ry

[Malcolm Davey]

Forgive me for asking but is this thread in the right section, this is Cavalry and yeomany, should this not be in the Infantry section.

Malc

[Charlie585]

Originally Posted by joachim

Forgive me for asking but is this thread in the right section, this is Cavalry and yeomany, should this not be in the Infantry section.

Malc

Hello Malc,

Damm you're on to us It was a take over bid for order of prececence

"Don't Panic" MODERATORS!

Ry

[peter seaman]

Good Evening Gordon, et al,

The KRRC badge that you show with the strange slider was produced to be attached to memorial tributes - wreaths etc. Some years ago items of this pattern were being sold off at the Royal Green Jackets Musuem, Peninisula Barracks, Winchester. They were priced at £1 and I bought a die stamped one like yours and a cast version, which I still have.

All good wsihes,

Peter

[1stTankie]

Hi Peter

Many thanks for your post. Needless to say you have ruined my day!!

I thought this was something special all these years but that's that one laid to rest.

It's still a rattling good badge though. Perhaps I'll send it to Dave for the "treatment"!!

Best wishes

Gordon

[peter seaman]

Good Afternoon Gordon,

Thank you for your reply. I'm sorry to have been the bearer of bad news. The chap in charge of selling them off at the museum sadly is no longer with us -Tom Craze.

As you rightly say they really are excellent badges. And I am certain that Dave will perform his particular brand of magic when it lands on his welcome mat!.

All good wishes,

Peter

[KLR]

Forgive me if I misunderstand the issue but I thought that Peter's explanation was that it was something produced by the Museum - long after the prototype - and also differing in whatever use or purpose it had originally ?
If that is the case I feel that if you send it to Dave for "treatment" you will be, in effect, falsifying its nature ? Repairing, and possibly 'restoring', is another matter. I think you will be creating great problems for future collectors.
I have the highest respect for Dave and his skills but I doubt that he would go in for falsifying something - he is too much of a gent !

[1stTankie]

Good evening Peter

Since dashing off my last post in a fit of pique I've had another look at the badge and remain convinced that it had a purpose other than putting on wreaths etc. Really the quality of the badge is far too good for something that would just waste away. I have also tried attaching it a RBL wreath and it doesn't work. In addition I'm not sure that wreaths really came to prominence until after the Great War and why would something then be produced with a QVC.

Having said that I'm inclined to the view that it was used by the regiment and the ones you saw in the shop were no longer required and probably discovered in a box in an old cluttered cupboard.

This is not unknown. In Tidworth in the early 1960s I was invited to visit the QM of the KSLI. He showed me a tea chest full of Riflemens' busbies. These had all belonged to the Isle of Wight Rifles and had been discovered under the stage of a theatre in Newport, IoW that year. They had been there ever since the Bn had mustered in the Great War. Similarly the QM of a certain Lancer regiment showed me 5 large boxes of Lance Cap plates in 1965. They had been carried around the world since 1914!

Both KRRC and RB had numerous regular battalions some of which must have served in warm climes and warranted the use of a pith helmet (or the equivalent type of protective headgear in days of Empire).

This prompts the question which of the KRRC Bns could have worn this badge, when and where?

Is this one for Griff to delve into or would a Greenjacket "Boff" like to take it up?

Best wishes

Gordon

[1stTankie]

Originally Posted by KLR

Forgive me if I misunderstand the issue but I thought that Peter's explanation was that it was something produced by the Museum - long after the prototype - and also differing in whatever use or purpose it had originally ?
If that is the case I feel that if you send it to Dave for "treatment" you will be, in effect, falsifying its nature ? Repairing, and possibly 'restoring', is another matter. I think you will be creating great problems for future collectors.
I have the highest respect for Dave and his skills but I doubt that he would go in for falsifying something - he is too much of a gent !

Hi KLR

It was said very much tongue in cheek, please note the exclamation marks.
Knowing Dave as I do I agree neither he nor I would do such a thing.
Please rest assured it will not appear on ebay in a false guise.

Best wishes

Gordon

[Charlie585]

Hello Gordon,

I’m not a “Boff” but I will try and apply a little logic to your plight with regard to the badge in question.

Although I sympathise with your apparent disappointment concerning this badge I have my own views, given what has been said so far.

Yes there is the possibility that the Regiment could have had a batch of these manufactured for use as headdress items (although its recognised use is known to be for the cross belt).

The lack of other examples having come to light in any quantity does though go against this.

Peter’s explanation does however make sense, the slider being unlike anything I have seen to this or any other regimental device does give credence to its origins as stated by him.

Also, with regard to your point about this badge which bears a QVC being used in the period after the Great War. This could be explained by the fact that this pattern amongst all KRRC badges seems to be the emblem that the regiment used as a common identifier, it having its origins in the 60th, a title that seems to have been a preference right up to the time of their demise and beyond.

As to Julian’s point, I think he is right and his concerns are justified. If it were in my possession I would not be tempted to alter it whatever my thoughts on its original purpose. In no way whatsoever would I accuse you of having it altered in a bid to deceive Gordon but as Julian implies, it doesn’t bode well when thinking of what it may be mistaken for by future generations once it leaves your custody.

I am more than happy to make enquiries on your behalf on my next visit to the Green Jackets museum but don’t really hold out much hope of getting to the bottom of it there, I may of course be pleasantly surprised and find the answer.


With regard to the other items that you mention, these instances although genuinely interesting as they are, bear no direct relation to the matter at hand and can only be regarded as supposition and I’m afraid wishful thinking.
I would have loved the first example I purchased of my KRRC (60th) Glengarry badge to have been original but no matter how hard I wished it, the fact remained that it wasn’t and never would be!

I think it is best regarded as one of those “keep an open mind” situations in the hope that an answer can be found, you never know what may be discovered in the future. In the mean time you have an item that whatever its intended use, seems to have had a regimental purpose in its own right and appears to be something of a rarity either way.

It may not prove to be a valuable item in comparison to a genune KRRC Cross belt plate but as a collectors's item it has its own attraction.


Sincere regards

Ry