19th PWO Hussars -

[badgecollector]

hi all
i have just spent some considerable time looking at the numerous threads on this badge and im still not sure?
from what i can see/gather, the lugs are in the right spot and correct with the braze for the period.
the gap between the tusks and the gap between tail and body look good.
my only concern is its not as crisp strike to the rear as i would expect?
dunno, please help. all opinions welcome
cheers
bc

[Alex Rice]

I think it is fine. There was a thread on the forum many years ago on how to spot fakes. The tail has had a knock and is bent in but I think ok.
Cheers,
Alex

[cbuehler]

I too think it is good. Typical early lugs that were often too short, resulting in their being pinched to get a little extra length out of them.

CB

[badgecollector]

wow, ok, thanks guys.
i thought it was good for all those reasons but wasnt completely sure
would this be circa 1898-1902?
thanks guys for the feedback
cheers
bc

[Alan O]

There is a photo of the badge in use circa 1902 being worn on Boer war slouch hats. After that I have failed to find a single photo of either it in use or any other cap badge by the 19th Hussars before the Dannebord Cross badge was introduced. The date given for this being sealed as a cap badge was 1910 but is was made as a lugged collar so its use may pre-date 1910.


So what was worn 1902-10 on the Brodrick, FSC and peaked cap is unknown to me.

It may have been this badge or the collar but no datable photos exist that i have seen.

My one concern is that this is not a rare cap badge: so either their use was longer than 4 years or someone has in the past made some very good copies that are indistinguishable from the originals.

Alan

[badgecollector]

thanks Alan
thats great info.
i got my dates from Bosleys Regimental badges site?
they say
19th Princess of Wales Own Hussars Victorian cap badge circa 1898-1902
you say its not rare, but what is a fair price?
thanks
bc

[Alan O]

Bosleys are repeating what is in K&K which in itself I believe is based on when the regiment changed it's titles with the change in Monarchs.

As for a fair price, anything Bosleys prices then I half the price!

[Luke H]

There are images of a scroll-less badge being worn on the pagri circa Boer War.



See Griff’s post in this thread:

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...5&postcount=80

John Mulcahy’s excellent research at TNA re the 19th Hussars is recorded in another thread. Relevant quote below.

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

Some data I noted on a recent visit to the National Archives from WO 359 Vol. 15 p. 17.

New Pattern... Badge Forage Cap and F.S. Helmet, with vertical shank, All Ranks 19 Hussars, New Pattern, Pattern No. 6968/1909 ... Badge Made Obsolete Pattern No. 4659a/1903, Badge, German Silver, Forage Cap and F.S. Helmet, All Ranks 19 Hussars, Notes... The Collar Badge ("A' with Coronet and Cross) is substituted for the (Elephant) cap badge. Date March 11, 1909.

I wholly agree on Alan’s comment on pricing. The single scroll badges aren’t scarce at all.

[Alan O]

The pagri badge was worn post WW1 just before amalgamation. I would date it from 1920-22. There is a photo on the forum of the last members of the regeiment at Tidworth in 1922 still wearing the pagri as they had just returned from overseas to be disbanded with one Squadron forming part of the newly amalgamted regiment.

The photo you show has a number of WW1 medal ribbons on it so it's when the regiment was in India in 1920.

[Luke H]

I did not know about the 1922 Tidworth pic so will try and find that, thanks. Notwithstanding I would presume the pagri pattern badge would in all likelihood have been sealed quite some time before the 1920s.

[Alan O]

As these were provided by the regiment then they were not sealed so the designs and changes between cloth and metal badges varied between battalions and locations.

In the 19th Hussars case they were wearing the titled elephant in the Boer War and then returned to UK with postings in Ireland and England until the start of WW1. Consequently they were not wearing pagris until they went to Muttra in India in 1920. I suspect that as they had not need pagris for 2 decades, the badge was designed for the 1920's posting to India.

The Tidworth pictures are in this book 15th/19th The King's Royal Hussars: A Pictorial History by Thompson, Ralph, 1989-10-12 I no longer have access to a copy but I think it was that one.
Alan

[High Wood]

Here is the Boer War cabinet photograph.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=93589

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=93590

[badgecollector]

That’s an awesome photo. Thanks for sharing.
BC

[Alan O]

A quick scan of the 19th Hussars soldiers who served in South Africa during the Boer war suggests that there were approximately 1000-1200 other ranks who might have been issued this badge before they returned to UK in 1902.

https://www.angloboerwar.com/unit-in...ss-own-hussars

I don't have the enthusiasm to go through the database and review every man and recount with the officers or multiple entries of the same soldier; but that figure seems about right.