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  #1  
Old 09-11-13, 11:21 PM
engineerand brass engineerand brass is offline
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Default Cost of badges

I have been purchasing badges for several years, but recently I notice several 'sellers' have increased their prices by monumental amounts. I suspect they know who they are.

Therefore, I am one who will not buy any more badges and will look for another hobby.
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  #2  
Old 10-11-13, 12:28 AM
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LONGSHANKS LONGSHANKS is offline
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I tend to agree on that point that I too have noticed certain badges a little higher than say 6 months ago. That may be what we have discussed on here a few times recently, the coming centenary.

But I do have to say that there seems to be a tendency that in general people want them also for virtually nothing. I have some badges for sale, some I consider not that easy to find ( well as originals that is), yet they don't sell, at what i consider prices I saw for them for and I payed for some about 1 to 3 years ago. You have to remember, they are in most verging on 100 years old.

TF and volunteers were rare way back, so why shouldn't they go up as time goes by.

The thing that annoys me is that some new collectors and I imagine many seasoned, seem to feel paying a higher price from a dealer gives the badge an air of legitimacy. But we know there are a few who sell re-strikes etc, and they sell because they have a cool web site. I don't include all in that statement as there are members who have the nice web site, and I know would NEVER sell a dud, and I trust their word implicitly.Yet, I sell sometime's a perfectly good old WW1 badge and no one tales it and at a much lower price than a dealer, yet doesn't have that allure of a fancy web site.. People are just odd that way. Even when I say offers accepted.

But as they say, it's what someone is willing to pay. I'd like to sell what I have up if I could as I have other things I'd like to get; but I'm not giving them away.

Sorry to hear your leaving the hobby, but I will say if you look in enough places and play the waiting game there are bargains out there. That sometimes is the fun thing about the hobby....the hunt. I sometimes have a real issue once I have a cool rare badge, that I need another high.....having it isn't as much fun sometimes as finding it......

All this is my humble opinion

Cheers

Simon.
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  #3  
Old 10-11-13, 01:12 AM
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Sonofacqms Sonofacqms is offline
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Smile Badge prices . . !

engineerand brass,

I don't know how long you have been buying badges, I started in the early 1950's and they have been going up in price ever since . . !

If they had been going down in price, I may have had second thoughts about buying badges. However, if you feel you have backed a loser, put your collection of badges up for sale on the classified section, no charges and its a good way to recoup your money.

Regards Rob
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  #4  
Old 10-11-13, 07:40 AM
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Mercian Mercian is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LONGSHANKS View Post
I tend to agree on that point that I too have noticed certain badges a little higher than say 6 months ago. That may be what we have discussed on here a few times recently, the coming centenary.

But I do have to say that there seems to be a tendency that in general people want them also for virtually nothing. I have some badges for sale, some I consider not that easy to find ( well as originals that is), yet they don't sell, at what i consider prices I saw for them for and I payed for some about 1 to 3 years ago. You have to remember, they are in most verging on 100 years old.

TF and volunteers were rare way back, so why shouldn't they go up as time goes by.

The thing that annoys me is that some new collectors and I imagine many seasoned, seem to feel paying a higher price from a dealer gives the badge an air of legitimacy. But we know there are a few who sell re-strikes etc, and they sell because they have a cool web site. I don't include all in that statement as there are members who have the nice web site, and I know would NEVER sell a dud, and I trust their word implicitly.Yet, I sell sometime's a perfectly good old WW1 badge and no one tales it and at a much lower price than a dealer, yet doesn't have that allure of a fancy web site.. People are just odd that way. Even when I say offers accepted.

But as they say, it's what someone is willing to pay. I'd like to sell what I have up if I could as I have other things I'd like to get; but I'm not giving them away.

Sorry to hear your leaving the hobby, but I will say if you look in enough places and play the waiting game there are bargains out there. That sometimes is the fun thing about the hobby....the hunt. I sometimes have a real issue once I have a cool rare badge, that I need another high.....having it isn't as much fun sometimes as finding it......

All this is my humble opinion

Cheers

Simon.
You hit the nail on the head there Simon, I feel exactly the same.

George
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  #5  
Old 10-11-13, 07:41 AM
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Peter Brydon Peter Brydon is offline
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As collectors I am sure our interest in badges is more than monetary but I think we would have a lot more to worry about if the value of items we had paid good money for in the past suddenly started to plummet.

Robs suggestion is a good one and if increased values/prices is a reason to stop collecting then offering items here or on SMM is the most cost effective way of selling items you no longer want.

P.B.

P.S. I do get much more satisfaction in searching out those badges being sold at give away prices than paying top prices even for badges I have been looking for for years for my own collection.
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Last edited by Peter Brydon; 10-11-13 at 07:47 AM.
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  #6  
Old 10-11-13, 09:46 AM
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It isn't just about high prices or higher prices, Militaria is one of life's assets, you can save more by buying wisely than you can by saving in a bank but nothing is free.

Remember that on a lot of occasions the items cost the seller more than they might have done previously so they sell for more !

I have many a time not been able to buy something because the price was too high, it is worse when you can and do spend a lot of cash only to find that you have made a mistake.

As others have said, their enjoyment of the hobby is obtaining an item that they might have been looking for for years, in those situations the object becomes worth the price.

The underlying factor of course is that although some dealers are charging more, there are still bargains out there and no-one is dictating that you buy from the expensive dealers, I have learned one thing in the past, if you want something special it will cost you......such is life.

Dave.
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  #7  
Old 10-11-13, 12:32 PM
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ubervamp ubervamp is offline
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Simon makes some very valid points, and regarding the centenary and the impact on prices I guess we'll have to wait and see. I have a feeling that will impact the price of the more common "entry-level" badges, though. A re-kindled interest in The Great War, combined with a growing interest in family history will probably spike a temporary interest in family regiments, and I'm sure sellers will capitalize on this. Fakers too, I'm afraid.
But, I can't see this group of buyers actively seeking out £50 TF badges. Regular infantry regiments - yes.

A couple of things to take into consideration; there is, by definition, a finite amount of genuine WW1 badges. As more and more get drawn into collections, they become scarcer and more sought after. Hence a trend toward increase in prices. That's logical.
I notice, though, that more common badges still sell and expensive, and scarcer badges will, again I assume, always find buyers amongst serious collectors, for whom the badge has value beyond it’s monetary price.
From various dealers, and from my own experience it's the “midrange-priced” that are becoming increasingly harder to move. Simon mentions a few badges he’s had on offer, and I notice that more and more often, items for sale on the forum are being down-priced due to lack of interest amongst buyers.
I think that has a lot to do with the overall economic situation a lot of collectors are experiencing. All over Europe, people are becoming more wary and careful with their money. I don’t see why the UK should be any different. Personally, I’d hate to see this hobby become a victim of social stratification.

I’ve never sold a badge in my life. I’m speaking from a purely buyer’s point of view. If I was collecting for investment reasons, I would probably invest in Gold. To me it’s a hobby with a strong Historical context and badges represent more than their apparent monetary value. I still don’t want to pay through my nose, though. I’m always looking for a bargain.

But as an example: I’ve been looking for a decent MGC to finish a frame I’m working on. I’d like to get one for £20. Who wouldn’t? But so far, I’ve not been that lucky. If I decided one day I was going to finish the frame, I would most likely approach dealers I trust, (not too impressed by flashy sites ) and if that meant paying a lot more, I probably would, safe in the knowledge I was getting a good one. And the extra quid would be a security. I might be guilty of keeping prices at a premium, but at some point something has to give. Time vs money.

A lot of members are dealers as well as collectors, and whilst defending their prices, can also appreciate and relate to the other side of the fence.
There is a breaking point, though. At some point, buyers won’t pay the prices asked. And sellers will either have to bring down their (inflated?) prices to be able to sell their wares, or burn in with stock.

I’m not saying that prices on the whole are too high, given the above. But whenever buyers are losing interest, for whatever reason, something’s happening.

It will even out, though, in the end. And until then, it’s each to his own, I guess. I’m happy to trawl the net looking for bargains. But I will also pay if there’s something I really want. And the chase is often better than the catch
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  #8  
Old 10-11-13, 01:03 PM
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Peter Brydon Peter Brydon is offline
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Some interesting thoughts, I agree with Dave`s comments.

Collecting (anything ) should, in my opinion, be seen as a long, pleasurable walk rather than a flat out dash.

I was thinking this morning of a couple of collectors I know who could not acquire items quickly enough and were prepared to pay any price, in both cases when things went wrong they ended up selling their collections to dealers and I am pretty sure did not get anything like the money back that they had spent.

P.B.
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Old 10-11-13, 01:24 PM
REMEVMBEA1 REMEVMBEA1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8thfoot View Post
Some interesting thoughts, I agree with Dave`s comments.

Collecting (anything ) should, in my opinion, be seen as a long, pleasurable walk rather than a flat out dash.

I was thinking this morning of a couple of collectors I know who could not acquire items quickly enough and were prepared to pay any price, in both cases when things went wrong they ended up selling their collections to dealers and I am pretty sure did not get anything like the money back that they had spent.

P.B.
I agree wholeheartedly with this, for me half the enjoyment is coming across a badge that I like / want randomly rather than as I see some members doing advertising on this , and other , sites.
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  #10  
Old 10-11-13, 02:35 PM
Charlie585 Charlie585 is offline
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The general consensus of the replies to this thread seems to advise taking your time and playing the long game with shopping around being the key.

There are still bargains to be found regularly as in the case of the badge in the listing below:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/3212410050...84.m1438.l2648

I purchased a similar example (shown below) a year ago for about double what this one went for so if I had waited I might have scooped a bargain. That said, I’m not in the least unhappy with what I paid for my example and by the time the badge in the link reaches the dealer’s site I expect its price will be more in line with what I paid for mine, if not substantially more.

Another example is the second badge I show, this was my Holy Grail for a long time and I applied a great deal of restraint when one was offered for sale some time ago at a hefty price. In this case I was very glad to have waited as I paid far less recently than the asking price of the badge previously offered.

Other badges that seem to currently have high asking prices are the RB KC Pagri badge, which can often be found for a reasonable price and also the Tower Hamlets Rifles badge which seems to attract a high premium in certain quarters,

I’m not posting to denigrate dealers in any way as they are in business to make a profit and their overheads including VAT have to be recouped. In fact many of the bargains are to be found by trawling their sites as not all of them apply high premiums for the pleasure of buying from them.

I recently purchased a RB Militia badge from a dealer for a good deal less than I had bought and sold my previous example for.

I suppose if you see a badge you must have and you have the funds in place it is tempting to splash out, often though and if you can bear the wait, there will be another along sooner or later and often at less than you might expect to pay.

As for the price increase in general, I agree that the centenary of the Great War will definitely have a direct impact as did the 60th anniversary of D day some years ago with things settling somewhat in the following period.

A long term increase in value is in my opinion no bad thing as it ensures that when a collector comes to sell, they stand a good chance of realising a value that reflects their initial expenditure. Not forgetting that the pleasure of indulging in the hobby has a price too which includes postage costs and the expense of visiting the fairs for those that do.

I think it would be a case of wishful thinking to expect to make much of a profit on a collection unless it is kept for many decades and even then there are other factors that come into play such as inflation, what the pound in your pocket will actually buy on a given date.

I am sorry to see that collectors are being put off by the perceived cost of the hobby and agree that it is pointless to carry on if the experience is not an enjoyable and affordable one.

I tend to buy to sell in order to finance my collection and upgrade or add to it as finances allow, turning a very modest collection into something quite nice within a few short years. I find now that the hobby in the main pays for itself and the only real expenditure I make from my income are what I pay in travel to fairs and for sundry items such as frames and cleaning/ restoration materials, which in the scheme of things is pretty minimal.

Playing the long game and shopping around will save you money as in the case of the badges I show below all purchased on the open market.

Top whack these together would have cost cost you in the region of £730 plus fees/costs. Those wise enough to wait could have picked them up for £430 plus fees/costs, quite a saving.

Regards to all.

Ry

Last edited by Charlie585; 21-11-13 at 02:24 PM.
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  #11  
Old 10-11-13, 06:32 PM
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David Tremain David Tremain is offline
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Everyone has made some good points about our hobby and I would just like to throw in my two cents' worth, if it makes any sense.

I buy to add to my collection, not to sell. I got into it simply out of interest, and as time went on I have acquired what I consider to be a considerable number of badges, but I can always do with more! Few have been given to me, apart from when I started out in the mid-Sixties (then my interest waned until c.2001). For the most part I have paid what I consider to be modest prices at shows, dealers and the odd antique shop now and again. Like most members, I have picked up a few bargains here and there, paid prices which were I to sell them I could make a profit on them. There are a number of badges I would love to have but are out of my price range. Whether it is because they are rare, and consequently expensive, or at overly-inflated prices, I will probably either never buy them, or do so at the expense of others. In some cases it may be hard to justify the expense. There is always those nagging questions: Can I afford not to? What if I never see one of those again? Depending on our financial circumstances, we all have to set limits: We can only buy what we can afford, and at what seems reasonable prices.

As with any collectables, the market ebbs and flows, depending on what is in style or available at the time. If the market becomes flooded with an item, prices tend to sag, so what you might have paid for it earlier, is less now, but it can rise again. Paintings are a classic example, with many variables, such as certain artists being more in vogue and 'collectable' than others. Monetary value, like our respective currencies, is always variable. Other forms of value, which have been discussed here and in previous posts, will likely remain the same.

When many of us started collecting, prices were peanuts; in some cases, nothing at all - you couldn't give them away. And that's probably what's bothering some of us older collectors. We're harking back to what it was 'worth' then. All that has changed now that everyone wants to collect something, and everything now has a value, whether it is really worth that or not. What caused this? Blame it on the 'Antiques Roadshow' and other such programmes if you want, or the resurgence of interest in military history with various anniversaries coming up (or past), and the disappearance of all the old vets. The fact is, that if dealers are not able to move their stuff it's probably either because they're asking too much, it's not top quality, or the market cannot sustain it. If they want to see any return on their stock they may have to lower their prices, or sit on it until the market improves.

OK, that's off my chest.

David
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