Ox and Bucks Light Infantry. Help please

[steveh]

Picked these two Small Light Infantry badges today. Both Shoulder / Collar badges.
Now i'm thinking due to the knot at the top that they might be Ox and Bucks badges, but the design on the bugle horns looks different to other Ox and Bucks badges I've seen.

One badge has two lugs the other has three.

Thanks...

[Deejayuu]

I think what you have here are two standard pattern light infantry bugle collars. They are both facing the same way so would not have been worn together.
Cheers, Dave

[CftD]

I agree partly with Dave - these are parts of shoulder titles (not collar badges) of, amongst others, the DLI and the Ox. & Bucks. but worn with other components (see Westlake). As pairs they would be mirror images (horn facing right and horn facing left) - it is often difficult to get absolute matching pairs although there are many around.

[daverpol]

They were also worn as collar badges by the DLI.

[fougasse1940]

I was under the impression that bugle shouder titles had three lugs, and collars two.

Rgds,
Thomas.

[Fatherofthree]

Originally Posted by fougasse1940

I was under the impression that bugle shouder titles had three lugs, and collars two.

Rgds,
Thomas.

Good morning Thomas.

I wasn't sure, so I've had a look and in Churchill's Collar badge book in respect of The DLI it states: On 9th June 1909, it was decided that an "an additional shank be added to the top of collar badge 10011a". The resulting collar badge in gilding metal and now with a three lug fitting was sealed 9th september 1910.

I also thought that the collars were worn the other way, i.e. bugle horn facing inward towards each other.

Nice to see the photo showing differently.

We live and learn everyday. The beauty of this forum

Regards
Brian

[steveh]

Thanks for taking the time to reply Gents....

I knew they weren't a pair as they are slightly different in design plus the the having three lugs and the other two. Good to have an Idea what what Regiment wore them.

Nice badges anyway... and cost next to nothing so all good.

Cheers..

Steve.

[fougasse1940]

Originally Posted by Fatherofthree

Good morning Thomas.

I wasn't sure, so I've had a look and in Churchill's Collar badge book in respect of The DLI it states: On 9th June 1909, it was decided that an "an additional shank be added to the top of collar badge 10011a". The resulting collar badge in gilding metal and now with a three lug fitting was sealed 9th september 1910.

I also thought that the collars were worn the other way, i.e. bugle horn facing inward towards each other.

Nice to see the photo showing differently.

We live and learn everyday. The beauty of this forum

Regards
Brian

Thanks for your post, it never occurred to me to look further than The Ox and Bucks part of Churchill, not realising the Ox & Bucks and DLI badges were the same. Live and learn indeed.
The logic behind bugles facing outward, according to Churchill, is "these are worn with the mouthpiece of the instrument at the collar opening, as if being blown by the wearer."

Rgds,
Thomas.

[Fatherofthree]

Good evening Thomas.

Thanks very much, I hadn't read that in the book.

Now I've got to turn all my DLI collars around in the collection.

Regards
Brian

[iain]

When used as part of the two peice shoulder titles did the bugles also face each other as on the one piece titles and later with the straight titles i.e KSLI or SCLI where bugles worn above these type of title. Iain

[Alan O]

So

Brass/GM and w/m bugles are both shoulder titles? WM s/ts were also used on the FSC inter-war years.

Brass bugles with 3 lugs are also likely to be DLI collars?

Brass ones that have been nickel plated are s/ts plated at regtl expense for wear in berets/caps WW2.

I note that Churchill/Westlake's book also shows BB bugles which they state were Ox&Bucks LI Service Bns in WW1.

Alan

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by iain

When used as part of the two peice shoulder titles did the bugles also face each other as on the one piece titles and later with the straight titles i.e KSLI or SCLI where bugles worn above these type of title. Iain

SCLI titles were originally wm with the scroll and bugle joined. Two brass hexagonal lugs on the rear. The bugle having a ribbon rather than a cord. These came as a facing pair with the bugles mouthpiece worn forward. This was changed to a straight SCLI in silver anodised with a 2 round eye type lug fitting.
In fact all the later wm Light Infantry titles had the hexagonal brass lugs fitted.
The late DLI title was wm then anodised and a standard Light Infantry bugle(ribbons) with Durham underneath joined to the bugle.
The ones shown are the old kind that could have been worn with a separate regiment identifying title ie :- bugle worn above Somerset or bugle above Yorkshire.

[bess55]

Gents,
I have some of these bugles anodised silver and also gold. The silver are in pairs (with differing dies, which would tend to indicate multiple manufacturers) - I believe the gold are found in pairs too.

What do we think is the definitive answer for these items? They have three lugs, which are somewhat difficult to date - which can be a problem with unmarked anodised items.

Are they arm badges - in pairs? Trade badges?

Any suggestions chaps?

Regards all

Bess

[grey_green_acorn]

Originally Posted by bess55

Gents,
I have some of these bugles anodised silver and also gold. The silver are in pairs (with differing dies, which would tend to indicate multiple manufacturers) - I believe the gold are found in pairs too.

What do we think is the definitive answer for these items? They have three lugs, which are somewhat difficult to date - which can be a problem with unmarked anodised items.

Are they arm badges - in pairs? Trade badges?

Any suggestions chaps?

Regards all

Bess

Silver anodised in pairs

Tim

[grey_green_acorn]

Gold anodised single

Tim