1st vol battalion the wiltshire regiment - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

49lassiepen · #1 18-09-15, 04:53 PM

For sale at present on ebay a 1st vol battalion firmin marked As many are aware i have been collecting to the wilts /62nd /99th for 44yrs now and have a fair collection There was only a 2nd volunteer battalion to this regiment of which i have a fairly comprehensive collection The 1st battalion retained the 1st wilts r.v badge --the moon rakers barrel and cross rakes -of which I have number If you go on the museum web site at the wardrobe there is nothing to a 1st battalion in uniforms/insignia/medals
I think this badge is a genuine officers badge but has been made into a fantasy item by the addition of a scroll
David

Graham Stewart · #2 18-09-15, 09:17 PM

I'm not a Wiltshire researcher and can't find the badge mentioned and technically you are correct there was no "1st Volunteer Bn, Wiltshire Regt", post-1881 - it remained the 1st Wiltshire Rifle Volunteer Corps, until amalgamating with the 2nd Volunteer Bn in 1908 to form the 4th Bn, Wiltshire Regt.

That is - until July 1918, when there was indeed a "1st Volunteer Bn, Wiltshire Regt" formed - being the only unit in Wiltshire Volunteer Regiment, with it's H.Q. located at the Drill Hall, Ivy Place, Chippenham, Wilts.

The only other unit in Wiltshire at this moment in time was the R.A.M.C.(Volunteers)

49lassiepen · #3 18-09-15, 09:47 PM

Added some 2nd vol battalion ,and R.V in my album See collar board also

manchesters · #4 19-09-15, 04:59 PM

I have to say that the badge in question, being sold by Endici is very convincing and doesnt appeared tampered with.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1st-Vol-Bn...item58cd8d22cc

regards

49lassiepen · #5 19-09-15, 05:32 PM

All I can say is that in 44 years of collecting I have never seen this item and have seen other large collections of Wilts items[ K.R had a large collection] Also 1st vol battalion not recorded in the regimental museum Any opinions on the 1st vol battalion loyal north lancs also being sold

manchesters · #6 19-09-15, 05:46 PM

I think the LNL badge "looks" OK also, albeit bad workmanship in fitting the scroll.

If it was a Manchester s badge that shouldnt exist I think I would have a go at it, after all I could always send it back.

No returns issues with this excellent seller..

regards

49lassiepen · #7 19-09-15, 08:37 PM

Known Paul for many years and agree an excellent seller and very genuine person I'm not sure what you mean by your 2nd line statement ????
David

FMT600 · #8 20-09-15, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 49lassiepen

For sale at present on ebay a 1st vol battalion firmin marked As many are aware i have been collecting to the wilts /62nd /99th for 44yrs now and have a fair collection There was only a 2nd volunteer battalion to this regiment of which i have a fairly comprehensive collection The 1st battalion retained the 1st wilts r.v badge --the moon rakers barrel and cross rakes -of which I have number If you go on the museum web site at the wardrobe there is nothing to a 1st battalion in uniforms/insignia/medals
I think this badge is a genuine officers badge but has been made into a fantasy item by the addition of a scroll
David

I'm no expert on the Wiltshire Regiment but what is interesting about the badge is it appears to be well constructed (nice casting) and the Firmin plate is very interesting, most badge collectors are aware that spurious Gaunt plates are to be found in abundance but if your saying that the 1st Vol Bn badge does not exist except in fake land that would then point to the Firmin plate being spurious which I am not aware of. Based on the fact that some other Regiments have badges which their is little or no logical reason for them to exist being around, for example the myriad of early York & Lancaster VB badges, if I were a Wiltshire collector I would be very tempted to bid on this badge as already has been pointed out you could always send it back if its not to your liking.

FMT600

manchesters · #9 20-09-15, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 49lassiepen

Known Paul for many years and agree an excellent seller and very genuine person I'm not sure what you mean by your 2nd line statement ????
David

What I mean is that I would take a chance and buy it, in the knowledge that once in the hand I still wasnt satisfied I would have no worries it returning it for a refund.

regards

49lassiepen · #10 20-09-15, 02:41 PM

Ref my 1st post unless Paul would wait for another 44 years to see if I could find some ref to this badge having read 99% of all books on this regiment and also have a large ref library on all military insignia ,searched the museum archives ,seen other Wilts collections never seen any photo's of this item being worn -Why would I want to include in my collection Price wise not a problem,
David

Toby Purcell · #11 20-09-15, 03:03 PM

I wouldn't rule it out David. Pre-internet books can contain myriad errors and the VBs are notoriously poorly recorded.

Alan O · #12 20-09-15, 03:12 PM

http://www.thewardrobe.org.uk/resear...rritorial-army

If the regtl museum states that there was no 1VB but that it remained the Wilts RV and the VB title was only used by the 2nd Vol bn then that should be enough evidence that there was no such unit pre 1908.

Note that there was a WW1 raised bn which does match:

1st Volunteer Battalion Wiltshire Regiment.

This Battalion was raised in the early days of the First World War for purposes of home defence, and was composed largely of men who were too old or to young for more active service, or not up to the physical standard required. 2000 men were trained by the Battalion, which reached a high state of efficiency, and 600 men were passed on to the Regular Army. This unit is not to be confused with the early volunteer units, and were the forerunners of the 2nd World War Home Guard

manchesters · #13 20-09-15, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 49lassiepen

Ref my 1st post unless Paul would wait for another 44 years to see if I could find some ref to this badge having read 99% of all books on this regiment and also have a large ref library on all military insignia ,searched the museum archives ,seen other Wilts collections never seen any photo's of this item being worn -Why would I want to include in my collection Price wise not a problem,
David

Each to their own I suppose.

Peter Brydon · #14 20-09-15, 04:59 PM

If it was the intention that there should have been a 1st.V.B. but the unit refused to comply , then perhaps this item was made in anticipation of something that did not happen, and if this was the case it could be a scarce piece reflecting a period of regimental history.

Not ,I appreciate, quite the same thing, but the 15th Lancashire Rifle Volunteers were not too happy about taking on the title of 4th V.B. Kings Liverpool Regiment but had a Glengarry badge ( and helmet plate ) made which kept the old title but incorporated the White Horse of Hanover of The Kings Regiment ( see photo )

I always think it is down to what the individual collector is happy with that should determine what he adds to his collection.

P.B.

49lassiepen · #15 20-09-15, 07:08 PM

To FMT 600 if you take the trouble to read my post i said this was a genuine Firmin badge I am not sure which vol battalions to the York and Lancs do not exist A member of this forum has produced an excellent book on the badges of this regiment and can find no reference in it to such volunteer battalions -perhaps you could enlighten me and others