Sandcast badges and others

[Frank Kelley]

The last cast thing I bought was this!

[Milmed]

And here is a picture of the s/t in question been worn. Photo from British Pathe news reels taken c.1940 I believe at docks in Durban.

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Steven,
Super photograph, many thanks indeed.
Regards Frank

[Brian Conyngham]

Great Picture!

SA Heavy Artillery served at harbour batteries in Mombasa and Zanzibar, some of the very first troops to serve in EA in WW2.

Sold a medal group to these chaps a few years back, regret it a little but it is in safe hands in CT.

Nice badge Frank.

Brian

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Brian,
I have never really thought too much about these badges, they are not my favourite really, but, the campaign against the macaroni was a very interesting one, they should have stayed at home and played with their gondola's!
Kind regards Frank

[Brian Conyngham]

Frank

The SAHA were their to protect the East African shoreline from possible Japanese attacks, believe it or not. The Brits rushed a few obsolete old heavy calibre guns to these ports, and the SA troops helped install and then manned them.

It would appear the gentleman in the picture had served in WW1, looks like a ribbon bar on his uniform?

Brian

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Brian,
I was not talking about the defence of East Africa or the Union, members of both the 1st and 2nd Medium Batteries SAHA gave the Garibaldi in Abyssinia, a bloody good spanking and relieved them of their nasty smug little empire, in particular at Karramarra and Combolcia in April 1941, their 6 inch shells rained down with gay abandon.
They really should have stuck to their gondola's, things would certainly have been rather less painful!
Kind regards Frank

Originally Posted by Brian Conyngham

Frank

The SAHA were their to protect the East African shoreline from possible Japanese attacks, believe it or not. The Brits rushed a few obsolete old heavy calibre guns to these ports, and the SA troops helped install and then manned them.

It would appear the gentleman in the picture had served in WW1, looks like a ribbon bar on his uniform?

Brian

[Brian Conyngham]

Frank

Yes, these guys were fairly active in the EA campaign. Difficult terrain to operate heavy/medium artillery in there very few roads as such, hence the SA Engineers did stirling work, they were very much the heroes of this campaign.

My wife's uncle Sapper B Veronie, was awarded a BEM for saving fellow engineers who were washed away in a crocodile infested river.

Brian

[Frank Kelley]

Hello Brian,
Yes, they certainly were, from begining to end, they also used their 60 pounder's to good effect.
I had a very good friend in Johannesburg, although, he is sadly no longer with us now, he had actually witnessed them dropping their trails around nine to ten thousand yards in front of the walled fortifications of Dessie, a great pity that the awful waste of space that passed for a Viceroy had managed to leave before they arrived, otherwise he would have doubtless been a little hot under the collar!
Kind regards Frank

Originally Posted by Brian Conyngham

Frank

Yes, these guys were fairly active in the EA campaign. Difficult terrain to operate heavy/medium artillery in there very few roads as such, hence the SA Engineers did stirling work, they were very much the heroes of this campaign.

My wife's uncle Sapper B Veronie, was awarded a BEM for saving fellow engineers who were washed away in a crocodile infested river.

Brian

[emties]

Hi Guys,
I have decided to part with my cast badges, but thought I would post some picture for record purposes before selling.
Firstly are front and backs of South African Brass sand-cast badges.


Second are the Lead cast with Twisted wire loops.



Normal Lead cast


and lastly some British and foreing cast badges.



Regards,
Mike & Tinus

[Frank Kelley]

Found a couple more, Egyptian made dross, yuk!

[craigen]

Originally Posted by Frank Kelley

Found a couple more, Egyptian made dross, yuk!

Well, as a wannabee historian and ex-wannabee archaeologist, I tend to find historical dross like this quite interesting.

So, always happy to provide a good home for theatre-made badges and other interesting orphans...

Cheers
Craig

[Brian Conyngham]

Craig

I tend to agree with you, I know these are not for the puritans BUT "they were there" and worn by the troops, so all part of the history of badge collecting, sadly neglected.

I have a fair number. They are all regarded as "copies" by those who first see them.....I was one of them, until I did a bit of military archaeology investigating and found a whole new subject, that has been neglected as mentioned above.

Brian

[RobD]

I would like a bit of background info about sandcast badges.
In truth, I am 'n bietjie skeptical about the conventional explanation that badges were lost in Egypt and Italy and were replaced by artisans as a cottage industry.

My points are:
1. SA sandcast badges are common
2. British sandcast badges are rare
3. British forces outnumbered SA forces both up North and in Italy.
4. How do such large numbers of badges get lost?
5. I have yet to hear of anyone observing a badge being sand cast in Italy or Egypt
6. Lead badges were cast in SA

My questions are:
7. Is it not more likely that bronze/brass badges were sand cast in SA, just like the lead ones were?
8. Is it really correct that all sand cast badges come from of units which went up North or to Italy? Or do sand cast versions exist of some units which remained within the borders of SA?

Rob

[Brian Conyngham]

Rod

I do believe that British sand cast are also common, I have seen many out here in SA and have a few myself. A good explaination could be that the Bristish troops stood to get into more trouble if they lost their badges, whereas SA Forces were not that stressed out as long as they had a badge. I read an article written by a SA soldier who served Up North recalling an incident that in one night a complete company of a SA unit, lost their badges overnight due to theft. This would of course lead to the troops having to replace their original badges with sand cast locally produced badges.

British sand cast badges were also produced in India and Ceylon.

Brian